Open Source Ecology - seed-eco-home

Not sure if this is mentioned anywhere, but the Wall Module Cheatsheets have color coded wall modules(I think). What do these mean? Should there be a legend added to the sheet?

Yes. Join effort as discussed at https://www.facebook.com/groups/398759490316633/posts/1642610495931520/. We need build cheatsheets and full CAD for every module in FreeCAD.

Log In or Sign Up to View

See posts, photos and more on Facebook.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoor_air_quality

Indoor air quality

Indoor air quality (IAQ) is the air quality within and around buildings and structures. IAQ is known to affect the health, comfort, and well-being of building occupants. Poor indoor air quality has been linked to sick building syndrome, reduced productivity, and impaired learning in schools. IAQ can be affected by gases (including carbon monoxid...

1:48 AM

limit carbon dioxide to 1,500 ppm

ideally 400

2

that's nice to know

I mean normal air is like 400

I haven't taken any measurements of HabLab, but I've become very interested in HVAC since moving in here...

@Wesxdz has reached level 8. GG!

gotta find it but apparently cognitive ability declines 10-15% at 1500ppm?

OwnerOfOwn

gotta find it but apparently cognitive ability declines 10-15% at 1500ppm?

that's wild

if ppm of CO2 goes to 675 humanity as a species will have 10-15% less cognitive capacity

1:51 AM

https://youtu.be/1Nh_vxpycEA

Tom Scott

This Is Your Brain On Stale Air

1:51 AM

for outdoor air quality

1:51 AM

has given a whole new meaning to "go get some fresh air"

1:52 AM

so yeah 1500ppm inside is literally making us monkeys according to this narrative

1

1

1:53 AM

would love to see some carbon scrubbers which [could also be achieved by CAES/LAES systems as compressing atmospheric gasses to cryogenic states inherently needs to scrub carbon at some point. then those could be blended out to nice cool air

1:55 AM

gimme a sls stainless powder printer and I'll give you a crygoenic dewar with a compressor input and a turbine output

1:58 AM

Or a ton of 316 series stainless, a hydraulic english wheel a nice AC tig welder and some SAE fittings and we'll get it going

1:59 AM

or a 300L nitrogen dewar with a few overpriced off-the-shelf components

OwnerOfOwn

would love to see some carbon scrubbers which [could also be achieved by CAES/LAES systems as compressing atmospheric gasses to cryogenic states inherently needs to scrub carbon at some point. then those could be blended out to nice cool air

Sodium hydroxide scrubs co2

1

8:10 PM

And is reversible

I may move my rambling on this to #hvacr-stuff as well if anyone is interested, but i was plotting some sort of universal Indoor Air Quality Sensor type thing, Temperature, Humidity, VOC Sensor, CO2 sensor, particulate matter sensing etc

6:13 AM

Magical dream world would have per-room sensors like this, but granted real world has budgets and whatnot, but yeah. Probably 1 per home is more reasonable Can be networked with HVAC for activating cooling/heating and/or humidification/dehumidification once certain parameters are reached etc

6:14 AM

I would probably keep smoke detection, and probably also Carbon Monoxide Detection seperate (for ease of maitnence / inspection + using certified OTS units for something so critical), but in theory those could be put on the same board / in the same device as well

6:14 AM

You could also put one in-line with the ventilation system too i would imagine

On another note Not certain where to put it, but this channel does all sorts of neat builds / visits to trade shows/ build sites (maybe even a future OBI build...!), but they have been doing some neat work / documentation with a house the y are building to / above the "Passive House" standard, and it's really neat, and worth a look if you have the time in my opinion: https://www.youtube.com/c/MattRisinger/videos

Matt Risinger

Welcome to The BUILD Show! Dedicated to Building Science and Fine Craftsmanship. My name is Matt Risinger and I'm a Builder in Austin TX who is passionate about High Performance Construction and every home I build it's my goal to be a bit better than the last home. On this channel you'll see me talking about Building Science, Insulation, Air ...

1

Eric Lotze

On another note Not certain where to put it, but this channel does all sorts of neat builds / visits to trade shows/ build sites (maybe even a future OBI build...!), but they have been doing some neat work / documentation with a house the y are building to / above the "Passive House" standard, and it's really neat, and worth a look if you have the time in my opinion: https://www.youtube.com/c/MattRisinger/videos

I think @Odundo was telling me about this.

Yeah open source principles are very common in high-efficiency building. Also check out the passive house accelerator. https://youtube.com/c/PassiveHouseAccelerator

Passive House Accelerator

Catalyst for zero carbon buildings. We bring you the best perspectives, insights, and lessons learned from the Passive House and high-performance building community: Architects, Builders, Consultants, City Officials, Owners, Building Product Suppliers, and more.

2

Hello. currently there are all types of probes: temperature, humidity, air quality, etc ... but the cost is quite high.

1

@PPCapiSpain has reached level 2. GG!

PPCapiSpain

Hello. currently there are all types of probes: temperature, humidity, air quality, etc ... but the cost is quite high.

also, alien probes, where the cost is the highest

Paul Pham

also, alien probes, where the cost is the highest

I would recommend you build a von Neumann probe to reduce the cost

Neumann probé?

I think the sensor on the D3D that detects whether the print head is close to the bed is called a Neumann probe. However, von Neumann was such a prolific thinker, he also thought of a completely different kind of probe named after him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#Von_Neumann_probes

Self-replicating spacecraft

The idea of self-replicating spacecraft has been applied – in theory – to several distinct "tasks". The particular variant of this idea applied to the idea of space exploration is known as a von Neumann probe, after being conceived by mathematician John von Neumann. Other variants include the Berserker and an automated terraforming seeder ship.

I'm an extreme fan of self-replicating, please yes

@Nohbdy Ahtall has reached level 14. GG!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjtilm_bYA

RR Buildings

Building A Large Post Frame Work Shop Full Time-lapse Construction

2

3:08 AM

anyone here follow RR buildings?

3:08 AM

this type of construction isn't mainstream yet

3:08 AM

but look at what 2 people and some machinery can do

3:08 AM

they have a whole series that goes into detail on this hunting lodge build

3:08 AM

it's insane

3:09 AM

open source scissor lift ya'll (edited)

1

oh i thought you meant they made one... still really great video / concept though

5:34 AM

Seemed like they have 2 scissor lifts, and one Skid-steer loader kind of thing

5:35 AM

Also a post hole digging attachment for the loader (as well as standard bucket, and forks i think i saw?)

5:36 AM

Lifetrac is a bit less polished i guess (maybe just visually/enclosed cabin or whatnot), but overall has the role of the Skid-steer loader covered

5:36 AM

I will go look and see if OSE has made a post hole digger attachment yet

5:39 AM

Doesn't entirely seem so, there is this basic page (just seems to show OTS options):

5:39 AM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Post_Hole_Digger

5:43 AM

Also mentioned in these pages: https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/LifeTrac_III/Research_Development https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Cordless_Tools https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Open_Source_Agriculture_Equipment_Proposal https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/ESW_Project_-_Universal_Rotor https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Universal_Rotor_Dashboard https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Other_CSK_v0.01_Machines

5:44 AM

I hate the name (me the terminology snob), but i guess "Earth Auger" (or as i'd prefer, but is less common, and still not optimal) "Post Hole Auger" is the correct term

5:44 AM

Post Hole Digger refers to those manual clamp like ones

5:45 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hole_digger

5:45 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_auger

5:47 AM

5:48 AM

we'd want something like that i guess so

5:48 AM

Universal mounting plate - universal rotor - auger (maybe a dust shield in front of the universal rotor too)

I made pages on them: https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Earth_Auger https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Post_Hole_Digger

Earth Auger

Post Hole Digger

aquamammal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjtilm_bYA

I think i might call that method you mentioned in this "Mechanized Barn Raising", what do you think of that name pre-me making the page?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbtaWa7Pwgw

Marcin Jakubowski

Rigid Roof Insulation and EPDM Membrane Install

2:13 AM

Is that membrane the final roof layer, or is there something like a steel roof going over that?

When we built the Seed Home v3, I kept wondering if we could make the wall modules smaller. Meet Gablok, the insulated block. https://gablok.be/en/ I don't fully understand how wires and pipes are routed in the system, but I didn't look into it for long. I wonder if it's patented in the US.

referenceur

Insulating formwork block for self-building - Belgian self-building

Gablok is a Belgian company specialising in insulating formwork blocks for self-building. Build your own house in Belgium.

1

Eric Lotze

Is that membrane the final roof layer, or is there something like a steel roof going over that?

I haven't been out to the site in awhile, but I don't think the membrane is the final layer. Almost all other buildings at FeF have metal roofing, so I'd imagine the same for Seed Home v2. white to reflect away most of the heat in the summer time. I do think we need multiple leakproof layers: the EPDM membrane, perhaps rigid foam insulation with sealant, underlayment, and then the metal roofing .

learner-long-life

I haven't been out to the site in awhile, but I don't think the membrane is the final layer. Almost all other buildings at FeF have metal roofing, so I'd imagine the same for Seed Home v2. white to reflect away most of the heat in the summer time. I do think we need multiple leakproof layers: the EPDM membrane, perhaps rigid foam insulation with sealant, underlayment, and then the metal roofing .

As far as I know it’s final layer. Unless you count the solar panels going on top. I’m working on the roof today finishing the panels around the top so the termination bar can be installed for holding down the epdm.

1

Awesome thanks for doing that @JeffH ! Solar panels are a great final layer. Looking forward to our first house party there.

laloeb

When we built the Seed Home v3, I kept wondering if we could make the wall modules smaller. Meet Gablok, the insulated block. https://gablok.be/en/ I don't fully understand how wires and pipes are routed in the system, but I didn't look into it for long. I wonder if it's patented in the US.

FB showed me this the other day! Thought similarly & also wondered if Anthony knew about this for his collection of building methods

Some cool block products https://youtu.be/VxClOdqDGQ8

CGS Tech

5 Innovative BUILDING SYSTEMS for your house #3

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/10/26/house-construction-costs-spike-most-since-1979-amid-materials-shortages-unfinished-houses-pile-up-total-inventory-highest-since-2008-prices-spike-as-low-end-dies/

House Construction Costs Spike Most since 1979 amid Materials Short...

A peek into the glass and windows shortage.

i didn't realize glass and windows were in short supply

fascinating

learner-long-life

i didn't realize glass and windows were in short supply

fascinating

Took my mom 4 weeks to get the wrong windows delivered, another 5 to get their replacements. Now the neighbor thinks she is deliberately sabataging her construction with malicious intent because the neighbor has never seen a construction site.

Why would someone deliberately sabotage their own construction site?

my thoughts exactly, my mom's neighbor has some very interesting thought processes

I'm in a new subdivision where the house across the street has all of the windows in except for one. It's been a month and they can't move on to sheet rock without passing inspection. It won't pass until the final window shows up and is installed. I see similar delays all around.

Holger

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/10/26/house-construction-costs-spike-most-since-1979-amid-materials-shortages-unfinished-houses-pile-up-total-inventory-highest-since-2008-prices-spike-as-low-end-dies/

I have an alternative theory. The U.S. is printing money at a large scale, leading to inflation. So more dollars are available via stimulus to buy goods such as a house, but these are all competing for a scarce supply due to COVID. So perhaps this is not a classic bubble where people invest and take out mortgages in the hopes that prices continue to rise

12:23 AM

@Odundo or someone who actually knows economics please correct me

The US economy tanked when we left Vietnam too. Backlash from the wealth transfer for war goods. I think real estate is just another bubble. If you want to study some real printing money schemes look at private equity. Multiple leveraged with little to no regulatory over site. Next crash will probably be covered by majority working people. Not real sure how it will compare with 2008 I think larger being as what SEC and banking regulations that are left are quite relaxed. Some congress people are trying to reinstate regulations that were put together after the 1929-30 depression. Big banks and wealthy people have pretty much had their way to eliminate these. Yes the EU banks are in all the way too. Something that is not talked about is we pay for war with inflation so the majority pays because of reduced purchasing power. Rich own the stocks of the companies and make out. Another part of this is to keep the little people thinking stocks are too complicated to self invest. The ugly note here is little people end up using mutual funds for investment and retirement. Some of the mutual funds end up in private equity..... Quite a bloody game it is......

A thought about "shortages" is it possible that decision makers have been using artificial intelligence to solve "unsolvable problems" using too small or narrow of data bases that has shifted what was a reasonable supply chain? Then bad business decisions have been made. One if the big contributors to semiconductor shortages is so much of our world is using legacy technology which is a fancy term for obsolete. The foundries that are making semiconductors are making new technology designs and the market of the world is huge for them. Business decisions have been made in the US to not make the investment to stay with new designs. I have found the designs for using Raspberry Pi for automotive computers great fun. The amount of creativity available and the tools that are available now is incredible.

Paulum

A thought about "shortages" is it possible that decision makers have been using artificial intelligence to solve "unsolvable problems" using too small or narrow of data bases that has shifted what was a reasonable supply chain? Then bad business decisions have been made. One if the big contributors to semiconductor shortages is so much of our world is using legacy technology which is a fancy term for obsolete. The foundries that are making semiconductors are making new technology designs and the market of the world is huge for them. Business decisions have been made in the US to not make the investment to stay with new designs. I have found the designs for using Raspberry Pi for automotive computers great fun. The amount of creativity available and the tools that are available now is incredible.

Yes, as far as I understand it is two things. One is disruptions made by COVID and bad business decisions, like say Ford and GM have shortages. While Tesla and Toyota do not. And the second thing is the concentration of these technologies and the complexity of the modern supply chain. So say all advanced microprocessors are made in Taiwan and they have issues from draughts to wars ect. it creates problems. Also you have very complex just in time supply chains which really disrupt things. As for using open source micros, that is a great idea! and a open source car in general. Using ARM processors like Arduino and Raspberry pi, and RISC processors for more complex operations. Thing is that you still have to manufacture them somewhere, so that is a problem, should be easier through....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhpZ4aHP6II More-urban design related, but i found it to be a good critique

Adam Something

Dubai's Sustainable City Is A "Green" Fever Dream

Critiques are important, sustainable / regenerative buildings need to be a conversation to engage everyone, not just a few privileged people. I look forward to watching it later

9:43 PM

The critiques might also apply to the Linear City in Saudi Arabia

or AKON CITY. who knows if it'll every get off the ground, but I admire the vision. https://youtu.be/-UdXHtrs_Ho

Akon

THIS IS AKONCITY

1

Continuing from around here: https://discord.com/channels/700486873272811562/700486873272811565/930079284406681650

1:43 PM

1:44 PM

Iron-Air Batteries (some development, but low TRL as of now ish)

(edited)

1:44 PM

Flywheel Energy Storage (Existing OTS Units, low TRL for OS Designs, also relatively complex design, but highly appropriate materials)

(edited)

1:45 PM

Synthetic methane via hydrogen eating bacteria and/or reverse microbial fuel cells Would be able to use existing biogas storage, as well as potentially even the biodigestor format

(edited)

1:52 PM

Also biomass collection / farming + automatic switchover could cover those “outages”

1:53 PM

ie farm bamboo and/or native grasses for charcoal and/or collect local fallen wood and/or sustainably manage a nearby forest and/or Algae Farming + Oil Press (or batch htl kiln) / Burner+Gasifier (edited)

1:53 PM

Then use those fuel reserves to run the generator and/or thermoelectric stove

1:54 PM

Also adsorption refrigerators if applicable

Eric Lotze

Synthetic methane via hydrogen eating bacteria and/or reverse microbial fuel cells Would be able to use existing biogas storage, as well as potentially even the biodigestor format

(edited)

check out the reaction of CO2 + H2 -> CH4 + H2O (basically reverse steam cracking) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction If you are just interested in large scale efficient production

That too! The channel is a mess, but i also have a Wiki Category, but #bio-petrochemistry if for my plotting of all that. The real tricky bit is catalysts, pressures, and tempuratures. They all can be done small scale, but don't make as much sense, at least in my Opinion

Eric Lotze

That too! The channel is a mess, but i also have a Wiki Category, but #bio-petrochemistry if for my plotting of all that. The real tricky bit is catalysts, pressures, and tempuratures. They all can be done small scale, but don't make as much sense, at least in my Opinion

Na, this reaction doesn't need any real catalyst and it is not a complex reaction, You are probably confusing it with the systhesis reaction to make higher level hydrocarbons (that is petrol) This is a very simple reaction, all you need is a steel pipe and high temperature and the right flow rates. And you put in hydrogen and carbon dioxide and you get out methane and water (the water can be reused in electrolysis)

5:15 PM

They used to use this on the international space station, because of it's simplicity and reliablity And it can generate oxygen from Carbon dioxide, so that was the main goal. I believe it was replaced with a solid metal oxide fuel cell, as those can do CO2 -> C + O2 strait, but that is new tech, great for mars to be honest

yfgame

Na, this reaction doesn't need any real catalyst and it is not a complex reaction, You are probably confusing it with the systhesis reaction to make higher level hydrocarbons (that is petrol) This is a very simple reaction, all you need is a steel pipe and high temperature and the right flow rates. And you put in hydrogen and carbon dioxide and you get out methane and water (the water can be reused in electrolysis)

ah, i thought you needed a iron catalyst covered

Eric Lotze

ah, i thought you needed a iron catalyst covered

Not really for this reaction, maybe it helps, but iron is not that expensive or hard to get. But no precious metals or such.

@yfgame has reached level 8. GG!

yfgame

Not really for this reaction, maybe it helps, but iron is not that expensive or hard to get. But no precious metals or such.

Yeah i agree, definitely appropriate materials

just out of curiosity, are there any plans in the future to implement construction of multi-story apartment housing?

@Roths has reached level 1. GG!

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1WwC7b8IPGBrWUV3fx-DpQv-EIOXkA71DJPuRVdnhGN0/edit#slide=id.gacdbfa1125_0_34

Seed Home 2 Utility Panel Technical

Seed Eco-Home PV System Integration PV Panel Roof Packing Utility Channel Kitchen-Bathroom PV China panels Eco-Strategy Tankless Water Heater Gas Connection Howto Overhead Electric Connection Initial Bathroom Panel Design Outside Grid Connection - power meter and disconnect Water + Sewer Hookup C...

2:27 AM

also, why is moving onto nickel iron batteries considered desirable? while they do have long lifespans, the cost of storage difference between them and a lithium ion battery of equivalent capability easily tilts the economics in favor of the lithium ion battery

2:28 AM

especially considering that home energy storage technologies will continue advancing

2:30 AM

time value of money number crunching with US treasury bond yields alone really highlights the downsides of high up front costs, and interest rates will only go up

I believe, but am not claiming to be fully informed, that the NiFe chemistry is more desirable from an ecological viewpoint. Nickel is about 4x more abundant in the Earth's crust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth%27s_crust) and currently available as scrap metal, so maybe it will be cheaper in the long run? NiFe battery lifetime also aligns with OSE philosophy of design for life. They last a long time and can be rejuvenated by replacing the electrolyte. They also tolerate abuse well, so over-discharging them doesn't ruin them as can happen with lithium ion batteries. Other good info here (https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Nickel-Iron_Battery#Advantages)

Nickel may be 4x more abundant in the earth's crust, but NiFe chemistry is certainly not even close to 25% of the performance of lithium ion. Not to mention there will inevitably be fairly significant costs for replacing the electrolyte for a battery equivalent to a lithium ion's charge capacity. Even taking into account lifetime operation its dubious as to whether they'd actually be more environmentally friendly than lithium ion due to the significantly greater amount of raw material you'd need, and the resulting ecological damage from mining that it would entail.

@Roths has reached level 2. GG!

Especially when you consider time value of money for the up front capital costs of buying such a system vs getting lithium ion, its definitely not worth it, especially when you consider things like lithium ion batteries having vastly larger economies of scale, large amounts of commercial interest in recycling, and the continued improvement in both energy density/cost/lifetime that lithium or other systems will have vs NiFe

3:56 AM

Economic viability is critical for any sort of adoption at large scale, excess costs will only be detrimental to that goal

3:59 AM

Even if you wanted less cutting edge solutions for energy storage, there's feasible low cost practical alternatives like using surplus solar power to power a heat pump to freeze ice, and using that as "cold storage" to help provide air conditioning when there's less power available in hot climates.

4:00 AM

Or alternatively looking into alternative chemistries being developed right now by companies like iron flow batteries/etc.

4:02 AM

I know a lot of the ethos of the project involved quite a lot of "DIY literally everything" at the start, but frankly total self sufficiency and autarky is just not feasible if you want to make an impact on the world at large, especially with limited manpower and capital.

4:06 AM

Making an open source home design that works, is commercially viable, and can scale is already a huge achievement on its own.

4:11 AM

https://opensource.com/life/16/7/getting-serious-about-open-source-homes

A open source toolkit for building your own home

Are you interested in building your own green, open source home?

4:12 AM

I'd just hate to see this fail to make an impact on the world at large after seeing how much heart and soul has been poured into open source development over the years.

Definitely agree with you. OSE has become more focused on making commercially viable products, with the flagship product being the Seed Eco-Home. It was originally going to be CEB construction, but they're taking an incremental step to that by working out the current stick-frame, modular-based construction house. I can see OSE adoption lithium batteries in the short term to fulfill the storage needs until they can explore other solutions. The slides you linked mention saturated water storage, which seems like the "hot storage" version of the "cold storage" you talked about. The concern with lithium ion batteries for storage might be stemming from their lifetime, which is a primary concern for house storage where batteries will go through daily discharge cycles. I understand that their storage capacity declines gradually, and it is likely they'll last several year.

1

while that's certainly a legitimate concern, thus far they're still the most cost effective solution based off of levelized cost of storage analysis

5:15 AM

only large scale competitor is pumped hydro storage, but that's only cost competitive in areas where the geography permits it and there aren't already people living in the area

5:16 AM

the amount of efficient capacity you get for a relatively low cost makes them the best option so far even after taking into account lifetime, but nonetheless they definitely aren't really a great option for scaling up mass grid storage

5:21 AM

nonetheless I still think NiFe chemistry is inadvisable

Roths

also, why is moving onto nickel iron batteries considered desirable? while they do have long lifespans, the cost of storage difference between them and a lithium ion battery of equivalent capability easily tilts the economics in favor of the lithium ion battery

LiFePO4 is the one you want unless you can do a kinetic battery or weight/density is supper important.

yeah lithium iron phosphate to the best of my knowledge is the most common home energy storage option on the market

@Roths has reached level 3. GG!

Roths

yeah lithium iron phosphate to the best of my knowledge is the most common home energy storage option on the market

Mine as well & people have paid me to sit next to people that are well qualified to make those statements, who I asked directly.

1:38 AM

Since last summer I have moved away from the Single Family Home as thee Dwelling Unit, now I am all in on Mass Dwelling Unit Podium Style "5 +1 over 2" built to Passive House Standards, which has been shown to be thee most cost-effective Dwelling Unit, & Lowest Carbon footprint....you can also add in Carbon Squestrian design & a housing trust to the project making it a solution for Homelessness, Wealth Inequality, Climate Disaster... or add in biophilic design making it solution Stress/Trauma the loss of cohesion in community.

the smaller single family eco-home unit being developed here has significantly lower up front costs to develop and requires less aggressive regulatory certification since its only two stories

It also isn't built to last, and all those "cost-cutting decisions" end up costing you a bunch of money after 7, 10, 15, 25 .... 100 years. Like 3' - 5' eves on the East, West, & South Side of the house calculated to block the sun during the summer & let it in during the winter, saving you money on HVAC & increasing your quality of life. The Single Family Home is a fantasy like "Army of One" or "I did this myself"

1:53 AM

SHOTS FIRED: The closest a Single Family Home can come to being a good idea is as a Row House with District Energy.

time value of money is still a thing to factor in as far as economic viability goes, its not a particularly good idea to invest large amounts of capital into a lower tech battery system that can theoretically last 100 years if in 30 or so new grid storage technology comes out that makes it even less economically competitive than it was before

1:56 AM

its important to consider the opportunity costs associated with present resources and capital available

It's not Opportunity Costs, Building a 5+1/2 is an event, it happened. then a new technology came along creating Opportunity Cost for a new possible event which then we as intelligent people chose the better one.

NiFe is an order of magnitude more expensive than Lithium battery solutions on the market now, its not worth adopting when a homeowner could just spend a day or so to upgrade to a newer even better battery system in the future after their lithium battery wears out after 20 or so years.

2:05 AM

I can understand the appeal of denser housing units, but the team working here doesn't have the resources to be able to design that as of right now and is starting with a simpler project to begin with

Agreed, Homeowners should not be buying batteries or solar panels, they should be a part of Utility Scale installations. Official Current US Plan for 2030, Utility Scale $0.02/kwh, Commercial Roof Top $0.03/kwh, Residential $0.05/kwh, us in the industry are planning on your roof top solar being 250% more expensive.

rooftop solar still has its advantages, though it has higher up front costs to setup, it uses pre-existing land that people are already living on

2:07 AM

rather than claiming more natural habitat

2:07 AM

trade offs have to be made one way or another sometimes

2:07 AM

situations vary, etc

Roths

rooftop solar still has its advantages, though it has higher up front costs to setup, it uses pre-existing land that people are already living on

That sounds like you think there is a land shortage... I mean sure as far as places where you won't die from Wet Blub Syndrome, Fires, Floods, Tornados, Hurricanes, or some Imperialist Military ... that land is pretty much just Minnesota & Canada but should we then use to the max of efficiency? What is better on a roof, a shity expensive not efficient solar array or a greenhouse, or a BBQ? Also, there are now Utility Scale Solar Farms with integrated farming, as in vegetables + animals.

not having to cut down trees or displace local animals living in a habitat is also nice sometimes

2:16 AM

besides that, land prices vary dramatically around the nation based on region and other factors

We need to cut the trees down, store the carbon, plant new trees & the animals already died.

in general its more situational than anything else as far as rooftop vs utility goes

2:19 AM

It really isn't. It is more of Musk being a super charismatic person served & then other people having to fix his mess.

energy generation self sufficiency has its advantages, especially when the grid is unreliable or unavailable in certain areas, not really a cost effective solution in most cases but in some circumstances it is

In those situations you want a ground mount dual axis tracker, depending on how in the sticks your are maybe a passive mechanical tracker instead of a electric motor.

@Deleted User has reached level 6. GG!

just out of curiosity what motivated the decision between making this a 2 story home instead of say, a 3 story or apartment sized building?

3:09 AM

plus I'm curious if the design could be adapted to make rowhouses with

Instructions unclear, vegetated roof with most useless, least effective plant choices in order to fit the "or" clause and avoid actual work. Vagueness is a danger, implementation details are key. Let's hope it is more specific than "any vegetation".

@Roths Those are good questions, and I'm not sure anyone on this channel could answer it as well as Marcin or Catarina. I don't think they spend much time on here, but you could try emailing Marcin. Here's my take. Caveat, I've only been involved with OSE for about 1.5 years, very on and off, and mostly off. The seed home started as a small house prototype that was intended to be expandable as need requires and funds allow. Here's some early-ish Seed Home requirements https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bkrlVriBpDj-VCtTIkLpBLMLr6H26-jmkdHgGhvRzHE/edit?usp=sharing found here https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/OBI. Based on the ability to expand, and the fact that insulated, 2x6 walls ought to help with noise dampening, I should think that the design is compatible with rowhouses without much adaptation. Lastly, the current house is 2-stories, because it minimizes footprint (reduces concrete costs) for the 1,000 sq ft base design. The build approach is probably compatible with >2-story designs (but you'd want to run that by a structural engineer). Let me tell you that in person, the 2-story house with a 16x32' footprint seems plenty tall enough.

(edited)

Seed Eco-Home: Requirements

Structural Requirements An off-grid, expandable home with 720 sq ft usable space + utility room and attached greenhouse. Design follows the “half a good house” concept - house is expandable, but what is initially built (the starter home) must be either “good” or easily repurposed - for example, ...

That's quite helpful, thanks for answering my questions

1

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/meet-singapore-couple-building-homes-and-creating-employment-in-ukraine

Singapore couple build bomb-resistant homes in Ukraine

The couple have built 200 homes with local partners in the region since the war started in February. Read more at straitstimes.com.

@Roths has reached level 4. GG!

Looking forward to seeing how the seed home build turns out

Me too. Unfortunately, I won't be able to help with it this year. I'm hoping to participate in a build next spring or summer.

https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/battery-powered-appliances

Battery-powered appliances!

I invested in a cool company that I think could replace gas with batteries.

1

4:39 AM

this does seem pretty neat tbh

4:40 AM

having the batteries built into the appliances to a decent extent seems like it reduces the need for an external home battery

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8969332/ - lovely

The Biggest Little Farm (2018) - IMDb

The Biggest Little Farm: Directed by John Chester. With John Chester, Molly Chester, Todd, Alan York. Documentarian John Chester and his wife Molly work to develop a sustainable farm on 200 acres outside of Los Angeles.

How's the build going btw?

1

https://heliostat.pl/en/

Heliosphere - natural light in your home

Heliosphere is an innovative technology to illuminate your room with sunlight. Heliosphere brightens your home or office with sunlight.

6:49 PM

Neat Way of Daylighting by having mirrors reflect light through windows onto the ceiling

Do we know any budget build-it-yourself winter-resistant homes? I found https://domegaia.com/ for 11,000

Aircrete Dome Homes - Build your dream with equipment and education

Designs, equipment, and education for building your dream Aircrete Dome Home. You'll find resources and inspiration along with a wealth of knowledge about Aircrete, Domes and other buildings. If you want to build with Aircrete you've come to the right place!

manoli

Do we know any budget build-it-yourself winter-resistant homes? I found https://domegaia.com/ for 11,000

Monolithic Domes are Neat!