Open Source Ecology - collaboration-and-social-media-software-stuff

This is for work on replacements for Google Cloud, and Discord Etc

12:32 AM

@PaleOracle

Cool, I think I'm going to braindump on the OSE Brainstorm Wiki Page

12:36 AM

Then we can discuss here.

Alrighty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kkkx6fkFMw

Marcin Jakubowski

Large Scale Video Collaboration

8:54 PM

TLDW: Essentially on-wiki / FLOSS methods for video collaboration

would be great having the audio finally acceptable; I stopped watching OSE videos long ago because of that

(edited)

Eric Lotze

This is for work on replacements for Google Cloud, and Discord Etc

what are the concerns about discord? I have my own of course: we don't own our own communications, data is centralized on discord servers, we require new users to register and hand over their email address

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I am personally OK with it, but the "OS puritans", for lack of a better word, are less so, as well as how alternatives may allow for "tinkering"

I have some experience bridging discord servers to my own matrix homeserver, that mitigates some of these. discord of course, has clearly superior animated emoji / avatars / stickers / memes

5:23 AM

Sounds amazing! Good to have more people with experience.

5:25 AM

I am not too concerned about emotes/animations myself short of votes/reactions i guess, that's just me

dear OS puritans: everything is terrible all of the time! but yes, tinkering with bots and widgets and stuff is fun. there could be some cool integrations with chat + wiki

Doing something like this can be neat for quick polls althoug bots exist for it to IIRC

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5:26 AM

So can matrix connect multiple things?

yes, i have a matrix bridging both discord and slack

5:26 AM

shudders slack

I know the Slack exists, but isn't used much, there is some heavily used facebook page too

5:27 AM

how does all that look on the matrix side? (edited)

i believe there is a facebook messenger bridge to matrix as well, that's not the same as page messages, but perhaps could be combined with the fb api

i don't have/use an account to that has the annoying "login" bar covering parts of links, or outright preventing viewing some

5:29 AM

You have a wiki account right?

i do

nice, i am unsure what page to put all this on / make but i may do that today as well

5:30 AM

guess i haven't pinned any either !

How poll looks in Guilded.gg:

OwnerOfOwn pinned a message to this channel. 7/6/2021 8:33 PM

I was happy to see Gitter speak matrix too: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/12/07/gitter-now-speaks-matrix the best part of gitter I find is that all channels are open and google searchable, don't know any other chat system that's this open by default (re: open source/collab bias) google users will never find this conversation

(edited)

Gitter now speaks Matrix! | Matrix.org

pcuci

I was happy to see Gitter speak matrix too: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/12/07/gitter-now-speaks-matrix the best part of gitter I find is that all channels are open and google searchable, don't know any other chat system that's this open by default (re: open source/collab bias) google users will never find this conversation

(edited)

Yeah really excited about this one, I recently started using matrix with the Element client and you can search across IRC, matrix, Gitter... channels all in the same place now. You do still need to know the right keywords though, but that's no problem if the org you're looking for has any form of web profile on www.

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https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Element_(Software)

Element (Software)

Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 7/31/2021 6:58 AM

Eric Lotze

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Element_(Software)

I would be happy to switch away from Discrod. The longer we use it, the harder to make the transition.

Holger

I would be happy to switch away from Discrod. The longer we use it, the harder to make the transition.

Does discord have a matrix bridge?

pcuci

Does discord have a matrix bridge?

The opposite, matrix has a discord bridge. I use it successfully for my own discord to matrix servers

Holger

I would be happy to switch away from Discrod. The longer we use it, the harder to make the transition.

@Marcin always says in open source it’s not either or, it’s both and

learner-long-life

@Marcin always says in open source it’s not either or, it’s both and

Yes, and? The issue with the law is that it's not open source, it's legal. In fact, copyleft works precisely because it uses legal speak against itself. So it can't be both, by definition... :-)

Granted there can be some practicality in sucking people into the FLOS version from discord, rather than abandon it entirely, granted i would probably use the alternative for nearly everything

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Not that I'm useful, but I am here - late - because I was "waiting" for a Discord server for OSE. It's taken some convincing to get people away from sms, facebook messenger, skype, etc and get people "in" to Discord in the first place, and there's still some waves to go. I would not abandon it. When I took on Discord, it was a sole and primary tool. It is likely that way for many now, and it is leaps better than whatever was used before. I'd suggest removing any numerous other social media pages before touching Discord at all. (edited)

These days if I want the feel for a community it's "check for their Discord server" first. If I spot certain "features" of the community, that's the impression I'm getting. Matrix is fine but I'm getting plenty of unwelcome IRC vibes far more often. Never had that on Discord(and I am joined to 30+), might get trolled or laughed at here - over there it feels like I'm "interrupting" something and must song and dance my way into trustworthiness first. I'd say switch over as soon as Matrix is in a similar popularity/common-usage as Discord. Abandoning Discord is especially not smart - unless you're going isolationist about this project. The neo-mainstream unskilled weirdos that can pop up will have an influence, and lacking a Discord just feels weird these days, and that may show.

Not sure I follow the technical or philosophical argument @Nohbdy Ahtall - we all have our favourite tools we got habituated to

3:28 PM

I think MS Teams is awesome, but I won't recommend it here because it's not philosophically aligned

Oh this isn't about my favorite tools, I've moved on to Guilded. I keep Discord because everyone uses it now, same as I might hang on to Skype during its peak, AOL IM, etc. I'm just saying not having a Discord is somewhat akin to not having a website in some ways, and ditching it fully for Matrix would be like requiring a registration wall to the website. Discord simply lacks that wall only due to how many people have registered - and it was kinda tough to get to this point.

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For me it is being pragmatic vs being right, i'd prefer FLOSS, and we can get there i bet, but we don't exist in a vacuum/island, and if we choose to be we close our selves off from a lot of discovery/growth. That's my take at least

Yeah, not worth it to be right at the expense of being wrong

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' I keep Discord because everyone uses it now' : yeah - everyone younger than 35

I am still puzzled about the purpose of this useless chitchat tools

9:47 PM

Problem with Discord as we've seen now over and over - it's sucks as support tool and you can't grow anything fruitful ... kinda suicide for your project, company or organization - and content... I guess we took SMS a little way too far after all

collaborative work is done differently though.... (edited)

But I understand now why rooted people won't bother interacting with any of that I guess it's back to square one - have a decent conversation ....

Sweet! Yeah before that it was more akin to "everyone younger than 22", hence the "it was tough getting here" part. I actually primarily see Discord being a disaster for an "open" project/community/organization as a good thing because it highlights what was already there. Mismoderation, favoritism, attitudes of those in power, the balance of power in general - it gets nice and openly discussed in places like this. Idk if I recall a truly innocent project/organization getting shut-down due to opening a community chat-zone. The communities just pry open true realities I notice.

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2:31 AM

--- Other news: Self-Hosted Collaborative Internet Browser --- https://github.com/m1k1o/neko-rooms

GitHub - m1k1o/neko-rooms: Selfhosted collaborative browser - room ...

Selfhosted collaborative browser - room management for n.eko - GitHub - m1k1o/neko-rooms: Selfhosted collaborative browser - room management for n.eko

Article on History of / Profitability / Business Strategy of Discord: https://alejandrorioja.com/how-does-discord-make-money/ (Not relevant to the FLOSS alternative that much, but interesting context + answers the data mining question (they don't supposedly) )