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Open Source Ecology
Project Development Channels / aquaculture
A channel for discussion and planning involving artificial coral reefs, kelp forests, and 3D Aquaculture Farms\ Also maybe plastic booms/river scrubbers until that grows to be it's own channel
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Link spam on relevant topics:
11:43 PM
Biorock, also known as Seacrete or Seament, is a trademark name used by Biorock, Inc. to refer to the substance formed by electro-accumulation of minerals dissolved in seawater. Wolf Hilbertz developed the process and patented it in 1979. The building process, popularly called...
12:31 AM
this design doesn't require cranes etc unlike larger blocks
1:14 AM
The above video had some great info, and that amazing 90's documentary aesthetic
3:22 AM
page on florida, uncertain on colledge/university project status in this heiarchy
3:22 AM
or for non-seabed tethered stuff such as 3D Aquaculture
3:22 AM
A roadtrip to pensacola is a boring drive, but would be worth it!
3:23 AM
(UNF where i went for a bit is one of THE places for marine bio, so i bet there could be work there)
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Know any techniques or tools for baking seaweed with any efficiency? I've fried/baked bull kelp leaves which are one of the thickest but still it was an insane amount of work. Literally gallons of leaves took hours to wash, boil, and finally bake between silicone sheets. All that work yielded only a tiny little sandwich bag of Korean style seaweed snacks 😕 . Not even as much as you would get from one of the little packages at Costco (which work out to only $0.80) each.
2:26 AM
I don't know how they cook them at scale but wow... seaweed is apparently almost entirely water.
2:28 AM
A friend of mine was able to raise bull kelp in front of their house and made an awesome little kelp forest. Fish moved in and loved it. Would be fun idea to do. I haven't yet tried making pickled kelp slices from the whips which I hear is really tasty also and hopefully less work. (edited)
2:31 AM
Wild bull kelp forests are apparently in decline
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@Cmjstealth has reached level 1. GG!
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We call this the geodome. A pair of local divers made it from PVC pipes in order to create an artificial reef at one of our popular dive sites. Even after 20 years i still am unable to see much if any degradation of the plastic. This makes me want to explore using large extruded beams of recycled plastic to construct other interesting vertical underwater habitats. https://imgur.com/a/0sFMyoG (edited)
3:53 AM
Pipe is now completely covered by invertebrates
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@Cmjstealth has reached level 2. GG!
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International waters make for some interesting propositions for floating civilizations as well
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small 1 meter or so diameter ones may be perfect!
6:37 AM
supposedly small bunches of ~5 or so domes seperated by 10-100m makes a healthier reef
6:38 AM
they act as "one reef" but also allow for other species in-between
6:38 AM
the "domes" are usually concrete, but some sort of geodesic frame would be easier to do with just divers!
6:39 AM
ie bring piles of plates/legos/beams etc
6:39 AM
gradually hand to dive team to assemble
6:39 AM
move to next spot, assemble there etc
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I was looking at market rates for recycled pet plastic and looks like for $2500 you can buy close to 50,000 lbs of plastic already ground up and ready to go. I feel like we could build an underwater city with that much material! 😯
7:04 AM
Was looking at pet specifically because it shouldn't float. Downside is it is harder to work with
7:06 AM
I've heard that since China banned the import of US plastic waste you can't hardly give the stuff away. Clearly that must be true. Shipping would cost more than the material
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Recycling is definetly a huge material source, i'm going to move over to #general and spam some links + ideas
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More of a mangrove swamp/breakwater, but i found this:
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Wow that has real promise, maybe injection molded put of recycled plastic on a ship?
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probably not, it wasn't shown in that video, but those are typically used for breakwaters in a sort of "3D Jigsaw Puzzle"
11:58 PM
Tetrapods are a type of structure in coastal engineering used to prevent erosion caused by weather and longshore drift, primarily to enforce coastal structures such as seawalls and breakwaters. Tetrapods are made of concrete, and use a tetrahedral shape to dissipate the force ...
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Frederik C (ZA) 11/16/2020 6:50 AM
We have them scattered along the ocean barrier in Table Bay harbour. Locally called "dolosse" because they look like animal bones used in a traditional children's game.
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probably not, it wasn't shown in that video, but those are typically used for breakwaters in a sort of "3D Jigsaw Puzzle"
@Eric Lotze yeah I know they are big, I mean having a big tetrapod injection molding machine on a ship, running nets of plastic through to get finished plastic tetrapods that have a hole in the middle for mangroves
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Smth like that might b a better use for an extrusion machine (look at the preciousplastic brick for reference), injection u need a lot of force all at once which would b an ask @ that scale, extrusion you can do a bit more gradually
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It'd be dope to make the plastic pieces and then let the plastic eating, rock producing bacteria scihouse is working on loose on it to turn the coatal defenses up a notch
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Sounds worrying to release in the ocean tho - the fish w plastics in their bellies probly won't appreciate it ☠
☠️ 2
10:27 AM
Maybe a solidifying pool first then decontamination
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true
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Plastic at the ocean surface exposed to wave action + uv rays is probably not a great idea. Seems a recipe for more microplastic which is already decimating countless species of birds, fish, whales, and mollusks.
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I definetly think concrete and/or carbon is the way to go
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Synthetic limestone is super interesting: http://www.blueplanet-ltd.com/#technology
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Ah the electrical method?
10:26 PM
no they haver adapted mineral carbonization ccs to reefs it seems? (edited)
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Not sure the details but different from biorock if that's what you mean. They produce synthetic limestone directly from captured CO2 (edited)
10:27 PM
Looks like they extract the calcium feedstock from old concrete maybe?
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i need to see what their "feedstock" is
10:27 PM
definetly intresting
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"Blue Planet’s process starts with collecting CO2 and dissolving it in a solution. In the process, the company creates carbonate that reacts with calcium from waste materials or rock to create calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate happens to be the main ingredient in limestone. But rather than superheating it to create cement (which would release all that CO2 right back into the atmosphere), Constantz and his team turn the resulting stone into pebbles that serve as aggregate." from https://grist.org/sponsored/the-breakthrough-that-could-actually-reverse-climate-change/
It’s a part of a growing movement to restore the climate to a healthy and habitable state, and it’s right under your feet.
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That can be obtained via seashells too, so a sort of "bio-leaching" approach VIA the farm/reef may allow for production of more material
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As shells are already calcium carbonate breaking them down for Ca^2 would release the same amount of carbonate as you are trying to sequester.
10:43 PM
On the flip side, I know organisms are already struggling to produce calcium carbonate (shells) due to acidification. If it is the carbonate availability that is the issue i wonder if that means there are ample free calcium ions that could be captured somehow?
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I think local carbon capture via a pile of seaweed/kelp etc reduces acidity decently ( c i t a t i o n n e e d e d (ill dig)
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Yeah - it absolutely does - just not sure in what form. Algae blooms in the ocean create sudden and dramatic PH changes in the water... problematically so
10:49 PM
As the ocean's pH drops, scientists are studying whether kelp and seagrass can create refuges that could help marine life survive acidifying waters.
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Deleted User 3/28/2021 7:32 PM
Marine Permaculture is a form of mariculture that reflects the principles of permaculture by recreating seaweed forest habitat and other ecosystems in nearshore and offshore ocean environments. Doing so enables a sustainable long-term harvest of seaweeds and seafood, while regenerating life in the ocean. Marine Permaculture comprises a platform...
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added it to the page, that's probably the more accurate name
10:47 PM
reposting that ted talk
10:49 PM
Those type of things are important to take into account
10:49 PM
I found a LCA for large scale kelp farming
10:49 PM
i need to find one for this more "ecosystem-ey" one
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@Deleted User has reached level 9. GG!
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is that cuz of the clams being heterotrophs?
10:51 PM
Oooooh like it steals all the calcium from the enviroment?
10:54 PM
Do you know much on the topic of kelp farming?
10:55 PM
Yeah i want to research it more as well
10:55 PM
Algae is such an amazing thing
10:56 PM
And not that its like the best source to get it from but its crazy that from (i dont think its all but at least a few) seaweeds you can get a vegan source of B12 naturally, not like a fortified product or whatever
10:57 PM
But it seems like thats a relatively unexplored topic, so i wonder if like thats bc its just taking B12 from animal excretions in the water or if its actually synthesizing it itself
10:58 PM
Oooooh thats possible too
10:59 PM
Gosh i cant wait to move to the ocean and just eat seaweed
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returning the shells to the ocean would negate-ish the impact, but ALSO the removal of CO2 by the plants, especially at a local level would remove carbonic acid so stuff gets c o m p l e x LCA wise (edited)
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I 100% agree the shelfish would be cause more acidity
11:13 PM
but the huge ammount of kelp making it probably very low local c02 (MAY i need to grab my g r a p h i n g c a l c u l a t o r or something) leading to less carbonic acid
11:13 PM
Also you could probably find a "safe margin"
11:13 PM
not doing factory farming at all costs, moreso using them as a biofilter
11:16 PM
i agree, which is why the "return" aspect would be needed
11:17 PM
complex mush->(co2 / hydrocarbons + energy out)->mineral filled ash/slag
11:17 PM
then take that mineral powder, dilute and reintroduce (edited)
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A tunicate is a marine invertebrate animal, a member of the subphylum Tunicata . It is part of the Chordata, a phylum which includes all animals with dorsal nerve cords and notochords (including vertebrates). The subphylum was at one time called Urochordata, and the term urochordates is still sometimes used for these animals. They are the only c...
8:16 PM
Do you guys think the thing described in this section would have the same side effects as large scale shellfish farming or would it actually be a good thing to look into?
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i'll look into it
9:31 PM
they look like something straight out of subnautica lol
9:31 PM
(have any of you played that game btw? It's great outside of the end needing some polish i guess)
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I want to play it but the gaming/entertainment budget says otherwise
11:16 PM
Not to mention t i m e
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y u p
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That's quite a list
5:02 PM
Organic chemistry is a branch of chemistry that studies the structure, properties and reactions of organic compounds, which contain carbon in covalent bonding. Study of structure determines their structural formula. Study of properties includes physical and chemical properties, and evaluation of chemical reactivity to understand their behavior. ...
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Some physics stuff in there too
11:07 PM
Reticulated foam is a very porous, low density solid foam. 'Reticulated' means like a net. Reticulated foams are extremely open foams i.e. there are few, if any, intact bubbles or cell windows. In contrast, the foam formed by soap bubbles is composed solely of intact (fully enclosed) bubbles. In a reticulated foam only the lineal boundaries wher...
11:08 PM
I am really enjoying the geometry of the Weaire-Phelan structure
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Wesxdz
I am really enjoying the geometry of the Weaire-Phelan structure
learner-long-life 8/4/2021 3:08 AM
“the most representative shape is a polyhedron with 13 faces” ‼️
12:31 AM
I think this is by the group that was an offshoot of OS-ROV or whatever it was
12:31 AM
either way neat presentation on sensor payloads + platforms and whatnot
12:34 AM
What lies beneath the murky depths? SolarCity co-founder Peter Rive wants to help you and the scientific community find out. He’s just led a $7 million Series A for Sofar Ocean Technologies, a new startup formed from a merger he orchestrated between underwater drone maker OpenROV and sea sens…
12:36 AM
part of me wants to ask a question on Open Sourcing stuff in the empty comments section, but i will save that until i have thought it through, don't want to seem obnoxious and whatnot
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~32:30 has a neat project for crowd + sensor based monitoring of coral reefs!
12:05 PM
Since the OSE Aquaponics workshop will start soon, just thought I would share a few pages from a nice book that shows an implementation for a tiny house. It's in German, sorry, but I hope the pictures speak for themselves... Book (in German): https://verlagderideen.de/produkt/ownhome/ BTW, the book was funded via crowdfunding.
In unserer Konsumgesellschaft leben wir auf Kosten der Umwelt und der Menschen in weniger wohlhabenden Ländern. Ein Ungleichgewicht, das sich in Form von Klimawandel, Umweltverschmutzung und Flucht vor Armut und Krieg immer mehr rächt. Mit dem ownhome hat Klemens Jakob eine Basis für eine Lebensweise entwickelt, die unsere Gesellschaft von innen...
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Holger
Since the OSE Aquaponics workshop will start soon, just thought I would share a few pages from a nice book that shows an implementation for a tiny house. It's in German, sorry, but I hope the pictures speak for themselves... Book (in German): https://verlagderideen.de/produkt/ownhome/ BTW, the book was funded via crowdfunding.
I bought this book, thank you.
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Deleted User 11/26/2022 5:34 PM
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Deleted User
Click to see attachment 🖼️
Neat Diagram! Did you make it, or where was it from? Is there a z o o m e d o u t v e r s i o n ?
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Heat exchangers too! That was really intriguing me home plumbing wise
11:39 PM
Also i was thinking (granted all this costs real money in more pipes/complexity…buiuut) have a “priming line” that feeds the hot water back into the tank until the line is hot where it connects to the tap
11:40 PM
I’ll just be sitting there sometimes and be like “oooooh dear this is wasting water, but also it isn’t hot yet aaaaaah”
11:40 PM
Granted some would just go the route of Point of Use Instant Hot Water Heaters, but i want that waste heat collection + solar thermal tank
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I’ve looked into those a bit, I don’t quite know how I feel about them. They have a bit more variables (I don’t know the specifics on Electrode / Membrane (if even used), but those are a major issue with Fuel Cells) and points of failure (due to biofouling, but again this isn’t backed by much data, so if you know a bunch on these please tell me!) compared to anaerobic digesters which are basically glorified murky ponds
12:07 AM
Also granted this is just me being a #bio-petrochemistry nerd, but having Methane (and maybe a little other stuff, as well as an easy way to get Sulfuric Acid/Sulfur) would be very useful for synthesis (as well as storage, steel or CF tanks are cheaper/simpler than batteries to an extent, and scale well)
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@Eric Lotze has reached level 40. GG!
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although efficiency (both in thermal and in costs) bits would be interesting to run.
12:09 AM
Also unless you plan on using it as is, the Biogas does need some rather significant “upgrading” (or at best a scrubber) to be able to be used like “Natural Gas” so that is a variable that would also be avoided with MFCs
12:09 AM
You may be able to have both too! A MFC with an Anaerobic Digester “afterburner”
12:10 AM
On the note of this: https://discord.com/channels/700486873272811562/862782116098080829/1054896260701769838 Have you done any more looking into the Azolla-Ponics kind of stuff?
12:12 AM
Could MFCs scale down really well too?
12:13 AM
Like Fish Tank/Porta-Potty/(Very-) Tiny House level WWT Energy
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So I've been working my butt off the last few months setting up anchors for growing bull kelp. Fingers crossed we can get something to grow this spring/sunmer
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1:34 AM
We are repurposing a bunch of giant concrete blocks. Here is us filling recycled barrels and bags up with air underwater to lift up the block... then I've been using my little inflatable and outboard to tow them into position
1:36 AM
We were going to try using the traffic cones underwater to deter the kelp crabs from climbing up the lines. Sort of like those guards you put around bird feeder posts to stop squirrels.
1:42 AM
To collect starts we put several hundred feet of hemp rope under several naturally occurring kelp forests elsewhere in the state. Even wrapped some sori around it. Fingers crossed some new growth will decide to attach to the rope which we will then transport to our new location. (edited)
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Naturally occurring kelp forests having been slowly dying off in our local waters and it is unclear why. I wonder if we could design some diy logging devices to track temperature/ph/light/turbidity/current/etc over the course of the summer. Curious if there are specific periods when our kelp growth rates lag behind growth rates of kelp elsewhere if it correlates to specific water quality conditions.
1:53 AM
The only differences I can think of between the areas where kelp still grows and where it has been dying off is the later are in more inland waterways (bigger temperature swings, climate change related heat waves?) and also these areas are closer to large human populations (pollutants from runoff, sewage treatment discharge, fertilizer runoff?).
1:55 AM
I wish I could measure potential pollutants but there are so many hundreds of common man-made things that end up in the ocean and not sure how to measure any of them with low budget Arduino-based sensors. (edited)
1:56 AM
I wonder if laser induced fluorescence spectroscopy could pick up on anything of relevance.
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Mafia Freie Zone 1/25/2023 5:53 PM
I wonder if we could design some diy logging devices to track temperature/ph/light/turbidity/current/etc over the course of the summer. - that's possible, I started porting some statistic algos to Atmel & Co. Logging/Readout preferably over Wifi tho. I am afraid that the conditions require good sealing. I'd ask some experts ... Perhaps there's a Discord server
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Mafia Freie Zone 1/26/2023 8:32 PM
Just realized that Atmel & friends may lack memory and processing power | ESP could do. Strings and buffers won't perform well on a controller meant for I/O though. Fun fact, they couldn't even agree on std::* 🙂
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Mafia Freie Zone 1/26/2023 8:39 PM
for the interested reader, a piece of bit blunt bigotry, https://yts.do/movie/the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-fck-2023/
The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (2023) YTS Movie Torrent:
8:40 PM
aka ' No Panik on the Titanik'
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Cmjstealth
So I've been working my butt off the last few months setting up anchors for growing bull kelp. Fingers crossed we can get something to grow this spring/sunmer
*OH MY GOODNESS YOU ARE DOING IN-PERSON STUFF, ABSOLUTE LEGEND *
8:13 PM
I can now live vicariously through you
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Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 4/27/2023 8:15 PM
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Cmjstealth
Naturally occurring kelp forests having been slowly dying off in our local waters and it is unclear why. I wonder if we could design some diy logging devices to track temperature/ph/light/turbidity/current/etc over the course of the summer. Curious if there are specific periods when our kelp growth rates lag behind growth rates of kelp elsewhere if it correlates to specific water quality conditions.
Just curious so if i can help in person so i could help, but what region are you in? (I'm in Florida, so guessing no, but i have barely any knowledge on Florida's aquatic ecosystems short of "cool reefs by the keys, and mangrove swamps are awesome" lol)
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Eric Lotze
Just curious so if i can help in person so i could help, but what region are you in? (I'm in Florida, so guessing no, but i have barely any knowledge on Florida's aquatic ecosystems short of "cool reefs by the keys, and mangrove swamps are awesome" lol)
I'm in Washington state so as far away from Florida in the contiguous states as possible lol
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Cmjstealth
I'm in Washington state so as far away from Florida in the contiguous states as possible lol
Lol makes sense, i figured since iirc most kelp forests are west coast
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@Eric Lotze I am thinking about visiting Florida later this year though if you happen to be in the south Florida area (keys, everglades, etc). Could meet up to have a beer, spear some invasive lionfish, whatever. If you are anywhere near that area of course
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Cmjstealth
To collect starts we put several hundred feet of hemp rope under several naturally occurring kelp forests elsewhere in the state. Even wrapped some sori around it. Fingers crossed some new growth will decide to attach to the rope which we will then transport to our new location. (edited)
Update: This week went out to recover the kelp line that I mentioned setting in Jan. There are little Kelp sprouts! Holy crap it actually worked! We successfully removed the collection line and moved it to the new location (edited)
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I'm in North Florida, but should have plenty of transport ability soon (getting a used car post the old one crapping out), and as long as it fits in my schedule i'd be down 100% I've been down to the keys-ish area once, and snorkeling was SOOOOO fun (i have no scuba gear/qual yet, but one can do a hell of a lot with some fins, a competitive swimmer "inline style" snorkel and some good mirrored goggles! Also kayaking in the mangroves is great fun short of the occasional alligator / dodging roots but yeah
10:05 PM
My only concern is that Desantis's Administration has been going off the deep end, so i am doing everything in my power to get out, although that is probably just paranoia due to me being me and stuff, also South Florida is way more chill ( I swear it's the Beaches + Café Cubano Per Capita that is Responsible
10:06 PM
Also i don't know if i made a wiki page on Lionfish yet, but i was geeking out on all that
10:06 PM
Mainly the whole "how to get them" and "how to butcher them" aspects
10:06 PM
but also i want to make a Terminator Submarine for them
10:06 PM
24/7 Lionfish Hunting Robot!
10:08 PM
Also i guess spear guns aren't required; there is this goofy method that lowkey looks like people picking up litter wait let me grab a video
10:09 PM
my only concern is sitting live in tube is like the near opposite of Ikejime so that may make them taste horrible
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@Eric Lotze I've only explored the keys once but found there really isn't anywhere accessible from shore that is deep enough for scuba anyway. You need a boat to get a couple miles offshore for that. Assume you don't have access to one, right?
10:13 PM
I did find one "secret" site within kayak range of the highway that had enough structure and depth for some cool critters (fish, goliath groupers, sharks, rays, etc). Was just shallow enough I could freedive down with mask and fins. Infested with some lionfish. Curious to buy a cheap lionfish hand spear and see if I can remove them and have a nice dinner.
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Cmjstealth
@Eric Lotze I've only explored the keys once but found there really isn't anywhere accessible from shore that is deep enough for scuba anyway. You need a boat to get a couple miles offshore for that. Assume you don't have access to one, right?
Not personally per-se, my parents have:
  • a small sailboat (like 20ft iirc, definitely not some i "gReW uP iN a LoG cAbIn" type thing a privilege to be able to have, but not some oceangoing superyacht. was like the price of a car when they got it and may be able to do small ocean trips, also 70's design so kind of falling apart, but still got some life in it
  • A Plastic "dingy" and a RHIB type thing (which was from his dad as a gift, but has been sitting in the Florida hot garage deflated for ages so may be dry rotted to hell and back)
I could probably not have access to the first, especially for such a giant trip, but the others maybe, but Definitely not something too worthwhile for dive support in the keys
10:28 PM
my carpool ride is here, so i have to log off this school library computer and go home, so will be switching over to mobile hopefully, but i got to go for now
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With new regulations turning whale avoidance into a top priority in the Gulf of Maine and off California, front-line fishermen sat Friday for a panel discussion at Pacific Marine Expo on what the futu
8:53 PM
Is the so-called “ropeless” fishing gear the silver bullet for solving the perceived problem of marine mammal interactions in California’s crab fisheries? Several profit-driven envir
8:53 PM
Some of those articles were b i a s e d, but yeah
8:53 PM
I heard about this “Ropeless Crab Fishing” / Lobster Traps etc on NPR a while back
Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:40 AM
Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:40 AM
Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:41 AM
Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:41 AM
Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:42 AM
Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:42 AM
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