Open Source Ecology - open-hardware-business-models

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency

In economics, a time-based currency is an alternative currency or exchange system where the unit of account is the person-hour or some other time unit. Some time-based currencies value everyone's contributions equally: one hour equals one service credit. In these systems, one person volunteers to work for an hour for another person; thus, they a...

1

@Wesxdz has reached level 7. GG!

Didn't most LETS'es die off with the advent of crypto @Wesxdz ?

Yeah it seems like a lot of LETS have died in the past: not necessarily replaced by crypto, but too localized to survive. I haven't explored the history and state of alternative currencies enough to really understand what's best. The number of crypto projects is a bit overwhelming

The model I find most promising currently is a decentralized autonomous organi{sm,zation} aka DAO. With a common purpose, values, and good transparent discussion, you can track and reward contributions, let outside investors speculate on it, and coordinate large groups of people without having to manage them. The most successful and friendly community DAO I've found, that I participate in, is https://1hive.org/#/home They propose fun things like managing a decentralized minecraft server, as well as more mundane management things.

Honey Pot

These DAOs are fun governance experiments, I saw an OSE Coin attempt at some point(?) I think trade and bartering is orthogonal to permissive open source licencing schemes, which are abundance focused, gift economies WIR Bank seems to work at scale, in Switzerland, with no usury/interest; I don't see the need nowadays given crypto. Anyone can generate any tokens they want. What seems to make most sense to me is everyone minting thier own crypto currency (and use those tokens as reputation-based promissory notes) The problem with reputation is that it's worthless when you have none, and it's risky (for the counterparty) when you decide to sabotage yourself, and say, want to exercise your freedom to be forgotten; or someone else ruins your reputation (which you can't easily fend off against)

A similar business website that sells (A-frame) house kits, of stamped plansets approved by their own structural engineer, either for self-builders or hiring of contractors. https://avrameusa.com/ They typically charge $150 / hour for an engineer to make the design changes, like the ones we are making in CAD right now. It's still a manual process, and could definitely be improved with a 3D visualization experience. There's no "Click here to buy $50k of precut house materials shipped to you". You fill out a form to start an email thread and arrange phone calls, and they have at least two dedicated salespeople who build relationships with and educate customers. The ones I talked to were good at their job, and I think any open hardware company would need to focus on sales / marketing equally with technology.

Zack

Avrame

Avrame USA A FLEXIBLE BUILDING SYSTEM FOR A-FRAMES PRE-CONSTRUCTION IS SIMPLE. BUILDING IS QUICK. STYLE IS CUSTOMIZABLE. Learn More Ever ask yourself, “What is so intriguing about an A-Frame?” Its classic triangular-peaked roof? Its perfect symmetry? Or simply its striking presence as it sits tall on the plot of land of your choosing? Whatever ...

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2021/07/15/2000-iowa-acres-for-bargain-price-only-good-owners-land-for-sale-coon-rapids-farming-climate-change/7962766002/ (edited)

Iowa family that once hosted Khrushchev will sell 2,000 acres, but ...

The eight prime parcels will carry a conservation easement that requires the purchasers to carry on soil health and anti-erosion practices

1

We can list the Seed Home on Wikifactory. They have some amazing looking farming / agricultural structures, but not a house yet. It looks like the platform facilitates crowd designed open hardware products. https://wikifactory.com/topic/sustainable-building

I think it's a good idea to have at least a stub there to increase reach. BTW, I don't have a problem with Wikifactory per se, but one should keep in mind that it's probably a venture capial driven thing. At some point they required people to sign up to see projects, now it seems that is gone again. Also, not all project are truly open source hardware and they seem to skirt around the issue... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPeS0MD4Fx8 (edited)

Wikifactory

Remaking Industry: Rapid prototyping and how to build a business

Holger

I think it's a good idea to have at least a stub there to increase reach. BTW, I don't have a problem with Wikifactory per se, but one should keep in mind that it's probably a venture capial driven thing. At some point they required people to sign up to see projects, now it seems that is gone again. Also, not all project are truly open source hardware and they seem to skirt around the issue... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPeS0MD4Fx8 (edited)

Sure, great caveats to bring up. I am more and more appreciating open hardware as a way of regulating the extractive / parasitic side of capitalism, as opposed to useful competitive markets that improve quality for everyone. I'm not against unlimited upside, but I'd like this upside to be applied back to the common good. It's a matter of moral judgment where to adjust this line, and how much monetary reward and gain you need to survive and feel appreciated.

1

1

pcuci

These DAOs are fun governance experiments, I saw an OSE Coin attempt at some point(?) I think trade and bartering is orthogonal to permissive open source licencing schemes, which are abundance focused, gift economies WIR Bank seems to work at scale, in Switzerland, with no usury/interest; I don't see the need nowadays given crypto. Anyone can generate any tokens they want. What seems to make most sense to me is everyone minting thier own crypto currency (and use those tokens as reputation-based promissory notes) The problem with reputation is that it's worthless when you have none, and it's risky (for the counterparty) when you decide to sabotage yourself, and say, want to exercise your freedom to be forgotten; or someone else ruins your reputation (which you can't easily fend off against)

Here's my work-in-progress proposing a 3-way collaboration between two successful community DAOs: Metagame and 1hive Feedback and co-creation is most welcome. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MYpfB558SKkR8rsS7pC5smIBkMPjEs5pctGCieoBKT0/edit?usp=sharing I did see the writing on OSE Coin and would love to discuss them at the next enterprise night if others are interested. I think Marcin's > 10 years of work on OSE is reputation enough, and each of us apprentices, writing up our experiences and publishing our youtube videos, is working towards that. Having a record of giving back to the world, and focusing on worthwhile goals. I see now that starting a youtube channel can be more than just a vanity. But yes, it can also be very silly. I'll also read more about WIR Bank, it is a weirdness that I love new kinds of banks. (edited)

Google Docs - create and edit documents online, for free.

Create a new document and edit with others at the same time -- from your computer, phone or tablet. Get stuff done with or without an internet connection. Use Docs to edit Word files. Free from Google.

"Project founders or early members will have no advantage over later members, except they may have the opportunity to demonstrate a longer history of service to the community, and therefore may use their social influence to be preferred as lenders." Interesting, this idea goes against the principles of fair equity proposed in https://slicingpie.com/ Why not think of everyone as temporary founders? What happens to your assets once you exit or die? @Paul Pham (part of the problem of the current system is the default estate management rules, and crypto networks as "network states" would in-the-long-term exacerbate this dynamic(?)) (edited)

pcuci

"Project founders or early members will have no advantage over later members, except they may have the opportunity to demonstrate a longer history of service to the community, and therefore may use their social influence to be preferred as lenders." Interesting, this idea goes against the principles of fair equity proposed in https://slicingpie.com/ Why not think of everyone as temporary founders? What happens to your assets once you exit or die? @Paul Pham (part of the problem of the current system is the default estate management rules, and crypto networks as "network states" would in-the-long-term exacerbate this dynamic(?)) (edited)

You’re right, i did not speak entirely correctly. Early members who believe in the project have a chance to buy additional governance tokens from members who believe in it less, or need the cash

pcuci

"Project founders or early members will have no advantage over later members, except they may have the opportunity to demonstrate a longer history of service to the community, and therefore may use their social influence to be preferred as lenders." Interesting, this idea goes against the principles of fair equity proposed in https://slicingpie.com/ Why not think of everyone as temporary founders? What happens to your assets once you exit or die? @Paul Pham (part of the problem of the current system is the default estate management rules, and crypto networks as "network states" would in-the-long-term exacerbate this dynamic(?)) (edited)

Indeed, I’d like to treat all contributions of the same quality equally, and all members are founders for the time they are active. In both 1hive and meta game, there’s no strong sense of hierarchy, celebrity, or authority, so I doubt you’d even know you were talking to an early member.

pcuci

"Project founders or early members will have no advantage over later members, except they may have the opportunity to demonstrate a longer history of service to the community, and therefore may use their social influence to be preferred as lenders." Interesting, this idea goes against the principles of fair equity proposed in https://slicingpie.com/ Why not think of everyone as temporary founders? What happens to your assets once you exit or die? @Paul Pham (part of the problem of the current system is the default estate management rules, and crypto networks as "network states" would in-the-long-term exacerbate this dynamic(?)) (edited)

I know this work, I’d be interested if it aligns with concerns of actual founders. E.g. to hire or attract talented employees, we need to have a pool of tokens reserved early purely for this purpose.

Not clear what the scarce resource is that you want to tokenize? People's time?

pcuci

"Project founders or early members will have no advantage over later members, except they may have the opportunity to demonstrate a longer history of service to the community, and therefore may use their social influence to be preferred as lenders." Interesting, this idea goes against the principles of fair equity proposed in https://slicingpie.com/ Why not think of everyone as temporary founders? What happens to your assets once you exit or die? @Paul Pham (part of the problem of the current system is the default estate management rules, and crypto networks as "network states" would in-the-long-term exacerbate this dynamic(?)) (edited)

Crypto networks, as you call them, or ledger coordination games (I’m trying out the term

are designed to decentralize succession or inheritance. If I die without giving my private key to my heirs, my governance tokens become unvoteable, and we can write into the contract that tokens that are not used within one year are burned (for example) to encourage engagement

pcuci

Not clear what the scarce resource is that you want to tokenize? People's time?

I’d rather tokenize the value of providing affordable housing, which is the (scarce) benefit produced. People’s time and effort are indeed finite, but you can choose to spend them in unhelpful ways that don’t further the common goal.

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In social networks we have the small-network effect that negates a lot of these equity ideals, whatever system we come up with needs to "fight" preferential attachment, systematically

I.e. I value outputs directly, inputs only indirectly

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pcuci

In social networks we have the small-network effect that negates a lot of these equity ideals, whatever system we come up with needs to "fight" preferential attachment, systematically

Perhaps we can organize a chat night over clubhouse. I’d love to understand those effects more, and also directly observe the two DAOs I mentioned, each of which reward different kinds of participation (not outputs) and have been running for a year or more, with varying degrees of sustainability.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_attachment

Preferential attachment

A preferential attachment process is any of a class of processes in which some quantity, typically some form of wealth or credit, is distributed among a number of individuals or objects according to how much they already have, so that those who are already wealthy receive more than those who are not. "Preferential attachment" is only the most r...

1:01 AM

@learner-long-life this one's fun too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox

Friendship paradox

The friendship paradox is the phenomenon first observed by the sociologist Scott L. Feld in 1991 that most people have fewer friends than their friends have, on average. It can be explained as a form of sampling bias in which people with more friends are more likely to be in one's own friend group. Or, said another way, one is less likely to be ...

1:01 AM

Basically: your friends have more friends than you do

pcuci

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_attachment

Interesting. If this is the rich get richer effect, with no additional input of labor, then my proposal could suffer by majority voters voting to award themselves a larger proportion of each monthly issuance. That’s why the governance is split into thirds, the tenants, social guardians and / or neighbors, and then the equity holders who earn.

@learner-long-life has reached level 3. GG!

I do enjoy paradoxes and sampling biases! also, data is available to empirically draw conclusions about which of these effects actually appear at this point in time, for two large (around 150 active participants, and market cap of millions of USD via non participating investors trading ) populations

1:09 AM

If you’re interested in DAOs or curious how active they are and the assets they manage, you might like https://DeepDAO.io

Deep DAO - Insights for a Decentralized World

dao analytics insights for a decentralized world

There is also a mention of skills quantifying - how did you plan to quantify that into the system?

pcuci

There is also a mention of skills quantifying - how did you plan to quantify that into the system?

That part was less thought out and could use some work. It may not be necessary, but the use case was, often we need contractors like plumbers, and we would want to incent positive relationships, high quality work, and a generous price to contractors

learner-long-life

That part was less thought out and could use some work. It may not be necessary, but the use case was, often we need contractors like plumbers, and we would want to incent positive relationships, high quality work, and a generous price to contractors

the neat thing about a DLTs is that they can track any such activity for later auditing, and build a reputation for contributors (even when no money exchanges hands; all we'd need is a few witnesses to sign that "person A did X", and put that on the chain) how about a "linkedin references"-like system, where people peer-compare two other people based on a skill they know say I know about "painting doors" (the skill can be anything), then I can choose 2 people I know in the network to rank-compare them on that skill "I stamp on the blockchain that person A is objectively better at skill X than person B" 1000 rankings later, you get a network of excellence across many different desirable skills first benefit, is full labour market transparency, imagine knowing the capacity of every person you'd want to hire, you can now say: "I want to hire a top 10% skilled at X person", and of course, they would commend a better price than someone at "top 20%" (to address privacy concerns, you may be limited to only friends of friends, and have a limit of 150 friends; I know I don't want the world to know all my skills, just some, and only contextually) if you're familiar with Page Rank, something like that, this algorithm would be similar (edited)

4:22 AM

@learner-long-life did you want on- or off-chain governance designed into this system? (edited)

I am looking since longer closer at WikiFactory; yep it's screwed - I remember that they got a 6 digit figure cash influx and it's far from seeing any fruits anywhere - seems to be another sad example where $$ ruins some great project; however - it's still a great platform one should consider to publish, beside of instructables.com or Hackaday. As for running an OS HW business, you may need to go really nuts and be a real ninja - there are too many obstacles thrown between your legs - even with a 25 years track record - it's insane difficult (but becoming good at it

Ash on my head but PreciousPlastic was a disaster (but good to learn from) and OSE seems to have a long way to go gaining momentum but also put the needed $$ outlets in the right places ... Just saying - whatever you look at, to be strict about OpenSource, you need some serious back wind and even though, you're still up to seasonal or whatever moods

-- osr-support --

I am looking since longer closer at WikiFactory; yep it's screwed - I remember that they got a 6 digit figure cash influx and it's far from seeing any fruits anywhere - seems to be another sad example where $$ ruins some great project; however - it's still a great platform one should consider to publish, beside of instructables.com or Hackaday. As for running an OS HW business, you may need to go really nuts and be a real ninja - there are too many obstacles thrown between your legs - even with a 25 years track record - it's insane difficult (but becoming good at it

Ash on my head but PreciousPlastic was a disaster (but good to learn from) and OSE seems to have a long way to go gaining momentum but also put the needed $$ outlets in the right places ... Just saying - whatever you look at, to be strict about OpenSource, you need some serious back wind and even though, you're still up to seasonal or whatever moods

Someone from a different discord recommended preciousplastic to me. I’d be interested in a post Mortem or your own opinion some time about what went wrong there. Or is still going wrong

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-antitechnology-0

Antitechnology #0

Anonymous Antitechnology #0 2009 Text version of the fanzine Antitechnology #0

4:45 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour

Division of labour

The division of labour is the separation of tasks in any economic system or organisation so that participants may specialise (specialisation). Individuals, organisations, and nations are endowed with or acquire specialised capabilities and either form combinations or trade to take advantage of the capabilities of others in addition to their own....

4:45 PM

Perhaps liberation technology is a viable path?

Wesxdz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour

I'm trying to figure out to what extent specialization is necessary

4:47 PM

Seems like a tradeoff between economic well-being and other forms of well-being, as I've found specialization to be boring/dehumanizing personally

4:48 PM

Wesxdz

Click to see attachment 🖼️

from https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/tripping-over-our-bootstraps-open-source-ecology-and-the-promise-of-liberational-technology

Model View Culture

Tripping Over Our Bootstraps: Open Source Ecology and the Promise o...

Configuring tools as a mode of straightforward escape from oppression, be it poverty or unfulfilling work, risks ignoring existing material practices and organizations that hold us to systems of inequity.

Wesxdz

I'm trying to figure out to what extent specialization is necessary

I think it depends, for most "day to day" things it isn't valid, and much is spend supporting giant beurocracies (companies that send makerspace scale capable products on 15 container ship trips from sweatshop to sweatshop "life of a t-shirt" and whatnot) Where i think it IS valid is in areas that require a pile of study/certification such as Medicine, High Tier Academics, Calculation Heavy / Cutting Edge Engineering, etc

7:26 PM

Like there are people who spend there entire life designing the perfect turbofan compressor blade geometry, and i think that will persist as a societal need / desire of people (i'm not into Pure mathematics, but some people love it to bits!)

7:27 PM

granted awefully centrist of me but i think a balance/critical reconsideration of / vetting of social hierarchy is the solution i guess?

Wesxdz

from https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/tripping-over-our-bootstraps-open-source-ecology-and-the-promise-of-liberational-technology

seems like a valid criticism

7:32 PM

"This suggests that collective control over infrastructure is equally as important, if not more so, than access to tools." (o p e n s o u r c e i n f a s t r u c t u r e t i m e) (edited)

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7:33 PM

granted rural vs urban ease of self sufficiency energy/water wise is odd (roof area vs people below it, for raimwater/solar thermal water + photovoltaic electrity)

7:36 PM

I think largely though the issues outlined are:

Volunteer Developer Shortages (Especially post-hype dying out, but also the nature of the concept (but other projects cast doubt on their skepticism of it, moreso a numbers game imo)

Usage of existing infastructure due to non-full self sufficiency (solved by more digifab/food stuff, but also "no ethical consumption under capitalism" and whatnot)

Community Outreach Needs

Eric Lotze

I think it depends, for most "day to day" things it isn't valid, and much is spend supporting giant beurocracies (companies that send makerspace scale capable products on 15 container ship trips from sweatshop to sweatshop "life of a t-shirt" and whatnot) Where i think it IS valid is in areas that require a pile of study/certification such as Medicine, High Tier Academics, Calculation Heavy / Cutting Edge Engineering, etc

Arguably anything can be an area that requires high arounts of study. (edited)

7:53 PM

I'm starting to be concerned that open source hardware manufacture and research is limited due to high time costs from its DIY distributed nature. Ultimately if something is not 100% locally manufacturable at the press of a button almost all people will prefer the option which saves them time: ie buying a product from Amazon produced in a centralized factory in China. (edited)

7:54 PM

For example, building the openflexure microscope, most of the parts are delivered from China. Things like objectives, screws, stepper motors are not easily created locally

Wesxdz

For example, building the openflexure microscope, most of the parts are delivered from China. Things like objectives, screws, stepper motors are not easily created locally

Lenses i agree to a certain extent, but screws could be made by a (cnc automated) lathe (i don't know if small ones are made by another method for making many, such as investment casting maybe?), and stepper motors / motors in general can be made using coil/core winding machines and some quick assembly

9:26 PM

Granted on cost i agree 100%

9:32 PM

but also i think the goal is less "make people not buy screws on amazon", but moreso "make ultimaker FDM printers (and similar "apple price" style marketing of hardware), obsolete/much cheaper, inspire innovation/modification of various tech by Open Sourcing it, and use the transparency/decentralization to make corruption/excessive bureaucracy very hard to exist

9:33 PM

https://www.dynamism.com/ultimaker.html?position=&keyword=ultimaker&device=c&network=g&matchtype=e&campaignid=11335589227&adgroupid=113821939609&gclid=CjwKCAjwruSHBhAtEiwA_qCppi520cXwmplMgF27A1mCRsQqI9BUJR0ZNEjSaMLv5--tOn0eFry5zxoCfQIQAvD_BwE

Ultimaker 3D Printers & Filaments | Dynamism | Dynamism

Premium end-to-end 3D printing solutions, get your hardware, materials, and software from Ultimaker's #1 North American reseller.

9:34 PM

Like people pay 2,000 USD+ for a mostly standard Cartesian printer, BEFORE accessories (and often proprietary parts, or even filament in some cases (makerbot i think, my data may be outdated) )

9:35 PM

when that could buy ~2 Genuine Prusa Printers (+/- some money for enclosure etc), a PILE of ender 3's (not reccomended due to upgrades), or a VORON etc

You can go one step further back and say: what about the raw material? This a wonderful art project, I think. https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch

Thomas Thwaites

How I built a toaster -- from scratch

It takes an entire civilization to build a toaster. Designer Thomas Thwaites found out the hard way, by attempting to build one from scratch: mining ore for steel, deriving plastic from oil ... it's frankly amazing he got as far as he got. A parable of our interconnected society, for designers and consumers alike.

The donation/volunteering crituqe the article made is probably the most important/valid IMO

Holger

You can go one step further back and say: what about the raw material? This a wonderful art project, I think. https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch

I think it depends on the material, and this has been churning in my brain with no real "solution" honestly

9:40 PM

I think some things can be made small scale, but many will still need to be centralized

9:40 PM

I made some obscenely long title page on all this, let me grab it (also i need to watch that link you posted)

9:43 PM

and again, high-carbon, low human rights capitalism is the world we live in and won't be changed in a day, so focusing on small, measurable goals is the way to go, not 0-100 I guess for example going "waste free"etc vs Organizing/Volunteering/Donating Money to Political Action for the same issues (in the plastic waste example, maybe taxes/subsidies for new/recycled plastics + non-fossil fuel ones, and bans on single use bags etc)

Holger

You can go one step further back and say: what about the raw material? This a wonderful art project, I think. https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch

1:10 "But he didn't have wikipedia" THIS

9:46 PM

(and internet in general ( actual sources and whatnot), and OSE / other similar OSHW groups !)

9:51 PM

9:00 early Homo sapiens named "Grug" makes plastic compression molding machine c2010 (edited)

1

I need to grab the dates, but i guess that TED talk predates the youtube channels Primitive Technology: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA How to Make Everything: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfIqCzQJXvYj9ssCoHq327g

10:02 PM

I guess how they said in your link @Holger 2/3 of these are very low tech methods!

10:05 PM

I don't know i'm kind of echo chambering/ranting too long, so i'll go get to some work lol

Eric Lotze

"This suggests that collective control over infrastructure is equally as important, if not more so, than access to tools." (o p e n s o u r c e i n f a s t r u c t u r e t i m e) (edited)

I'm definitely interested in collective control over physical infrastructure, housing, land, and tools. By definition, the collective also has control over its own focus, direction, and emotional labor. I don't really see strong distinctions between the importance of each of these. There have been great works by Elinor Ostrom, a Nobel laureate political economist who is a pioneer in the field of cooperative economics, in her work "Governing the Commons" where she studies 8 different cooperatives, some existing sustainably for 200 years or more, managing common pool resources like irrigation canals in spain, fishing waters in Japan, etc., all without a central authority or government. They determine their own bureaucracy, and have their own system of enforcement and punishment. If you're interested in solving for "tragedy of the commons" or wondering if humans can ever coordinate without a profit motive, it's one answer with historical proofs. Although I like to think that joy and ecstasy represent other dimensions besides survival versus late-stage capitalist monopolies. https://beyondintractability.org/bksum/ostrom-governing

3

1

1:36 AM

Whether we can use these insights to socially engineer our own communities.... eh. In my experience, collective control is a slow process requiring decades of relationship building and allowing, and not much technological intervention is useful. It usually requires participants be equals from the beginning, or have no strong disadvantage to newcomers, as long as all are tied to equitable and mutual benefit. Think, credit unions and your local organic food coop. All of my attempts to create a collective from scratch and present it as a Great Salvation to people have been met with indifference, perplexity, or attempts to fit it into existing mental models of private property and value extraction. Rather than gin up these great designs which make us feel important, I would recommend we find success by just muddling through little by little every day, and try to go to sleep and wake up happy with how we spend our time on this earth and relate to one another. However, I'm still going to try this DAO thing. It just needs a few decades more of testing and proving, but there are a few who haven't died yet

1

Paul Pham

I'm definitely interested in collective control over physical infrastructure, housing, land, and tools. By definition, the collective also has control over its own focus, direction, and emotional labor. I don't really see strong distinctions between the importance of each of these. There have been great works by Elinor Ostrom, a Nobel laureate political economist who is a pioneer in the field of cooperative economics, in her work "Governing the Commons" where she studies 8 different cooperatives, some existing sustainably for 200 years or more, managing common pool resources like irrigation canals in spain, fishing waters in Japan, etc., all without a central authority or government. They determine their own bureaucracy, and have their own system of enforcement and punishment. If you're interested in solving for "tragedy of the commons" or wondering if humans can ever coordinate without a profit motive, it's one answer with historical proofs. Although I like to think that joy and ecstasy represent other dimensions besides survival versus late-stage capitalist monopolies. https://beyondintractability.org/bksum/ostrom-governing

I think she's got a theory of what to look for in successful cooperation, but to my understanding no path to get there

1:48 AM

https://thisviewoflife.com/elinors-classroom-developing-a-connected-concept-of-the-commons-for-21st-century-civic-education/

Eric Johnson

Elinor’s Classroom: Developing a Connected Concept of the Commons f...

A new culture of interdisciplinary teaching is emerging in regards to the cultural evolution of school communities as agents of change through social learning.

1:51 AM

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43319562-prosocial building up on Elinor's CDPs

Prosocial

A groundbreaking, comprehensive program for designing effective and socially equitable groups of all sizes—from businesses and social jus...

pcuci

I think she's got a theory of what to look for in successful cooperation, but to my understanding no path to get there

well, she has to leave some work and nobel prizes for the rest of us.

1

Paul Pham

well, she has to leave some work and nobel prizes for the rest of us.

If we were to rank 1-to-10 OSE's CDPs, as per Elinor's theories, what would surprise you @Paul Pham ?

learner-long-life

Someone from a different discord recommended preciousplastic to me. I’d be interested in a post Mortem or your own opinion some time about what went wrong there. Or is still going wrong

'Someone from a different discord recommended preciousplastic to me. I’d be interested in a post Mortem or your own opinion some time about what went wrong there. Or is still going wrong' There's too much of it actually to be written here on Discord but there is some 'review' about coming up - also to leave all the trespassers and bouncers something upfront

If you want to just toy around, Precious Plastic can be ok for some entry level experience - still at big figures and yet often disappointing; If it's about business, please repeat for your self for a few times "I want to be in the plastic recycling business" then it's a whole different story and the general consensus is : if you don't have a ties with the industry and/or a sh** load of cash, consider this a hobby

There are however some paths one can go 1. you produce a product from recycled plastic - ... I can count the success stories on one hand - and it's all outside of PreciousPlastic 2. you produce machines - also that goes best ignoring Precious Plastic plans and especially their new free-loader blackmailing covered up as 'community plans' (https://onearmy.github.io/academy/guides/community-program - sick maniacs if you'd ask us ...) ; with whopping 200k you can get somewhere - and yet not exactly healthy business 3. you do both, just do the math

4. you're in research & development, I know enjoy this since a while most but also there, equipment and bills get bigger and bigger ... Plastic recycling isn't exactly known for making money after all - quite the contrary - there is a reason the industry refuses it, on scale - it's just extremely expensive and not exactly a thing one wants to do 8 hours long ... (edited)

12:22 AM

For what it worth, it can go alright if you're already own a business & infrastructure and incorporate plastic and some of the merely acceptable material developments ...

12:28 AM

In short, it could be a lot more healthy for you to join 'The Fellatio Truth Movement' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgHO15Bb58)

JonLajoie

The Fellatio Truth Movement (Jon Lajoie)

1

There is also a perfect summary : https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ - doesn't just apply for Precious Plastic but also 'organizations' in general - leaving the 'project' to the classic 'internal success' first paradigm ; Looks a little tedious to read but I promise you, it's worth every second to read.

Venkatesh Rao

The Gervais Principle, Or The Office According to “The Office”

My neighbor introduced me to The Office back in 2005. Since then, I’ve watched every episode of both the British and American versions. I’ve watched the show obsessively because I&#8217…

Business model: Pool all efforts into self-replicating machines and accessing raw materials. Make it all open hardware. Build more self replicating machines. ~~Release upon world, watch industry collapse and individuals self-sustain.~~ Ok wait build a REALLY nice resource distribution method globally, and transparent indicator of how many resources we actually have left and disallow crossing a threshold without regenerating or acquiring space-bound materials to refill. Then release upon world.

g r e y g o o

Nohbdy Ahtall

Business model: Pool all efforts into self-replicating machines and accessing raw materials. Make it all open hardware. Build more self replicating machines. ~~Release upon world, watch industry collapse and individuals self-sustain.~~ Ok wait build a REALLY nice resource distribution method globally, and transparent indicator of how many resources we actually have left and disallow crossing a threshold without regenerating or acquiring space-bound materials to refill. Then release upon world.

Let's not confuse the size of the problem with the size of the market...

4:33 AM

You're using a similar argument to "prediabetic people, which are 1/3 of westerners, should eat healthy", but very few do, so the market is very small... (edited)

Nohbdy Ahtall

Business model: Pool all efforts into self-replicating machines and accessing raw materials. Make it all open hardware. Build more self replicating machines. ~~Release upon world, watch industry collapse and individuals self-sustain.~~ Ok wait build a REALLY nice resource distribution method globally, and transparent indicator of how many resources we actually have left and disallow crossing a threshold without regenerating or acquiring space-bound materials to refill. Then release upon world.

https://www.netflix.com/fr/title/81336476?s=a&trkid=13747225&t=cp&vlang=fr&clip=81441699 Unfinished work, still active research It's probably better to assume the numbers are worse than whatever we think we agree they are and act defensibly(?) (edited)

Breaking Boundaries: The Science Of Our Planet | Netflix Official Site

David Attenborough and scientist Johan Rockström examine Earth's biodiversity collapse and how this crisis can still be averted.

Another similar business website that offers eco-building services and learning materials https://pangeabuilders.com/ They offer building an earthship and may collaborate with Michael Reynolds, the earthship founder. I just emailed them to see if they would be interested in collaborating with OSE on the Seed Eco-Home, will report back what they say.

Pangea Builders

Green Construction Off-Grid Systems | Pangea Builders

Master Sustainable Builders. We Build Inspiring Residential and Commercial Spaces. Specialists in Modern Off-Grid Design, Systems and Construction.

Paul Pham

Another similar business website that offers eco-building services and learning materials https://pangeabuilders.com/ They offer building an earthship and may collaborate with Michael Reynolds, the earthship founder. I just emailed them to see if they would be interested in collaborating with OSE on the Seed Eco-Home, will report back what they say.

The extra basement seems like a lot of additional work (?)

The extra basement is key, that's where the geothermal temperature stabilization (climate battery) comes from. In Detroit, all houses have them, as additional storage. It's a huge boon, but I agree, more digging work.

I like the open design, I wonder if there is an indoor vertical farm opportunity on the top floor, the attick space doesn't seem really used, and it should get pretty hot up there

1

I was watching something a while back on Persia/Iran and how they had/have "Windcatchers", and the underground basement level aqueducts and made this really neat passive cooling/ventilating (+ evaporative cooling!) system with it all, not too relevant for the channel, but really neat stuff

1

6:18 AM

found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRYuUqYI3nM

Parsianada

Ancient Persian Air Conditioning

https://youtu.be/FYwUfRg6q1g?t=638

One Army

MN#54 - We made a new shredder!

2:44 AM

I made the timecode specifically to the section mentioning it, but they have made a very promising system for versioning their own stuff + organizing forks in an easily navigable manner!

2:45 AM

https://machine-inventory.preciousplastic.com/

2:45 AM

I made a comment in the YouTube Video on suggested "filters" to add in, as well as one on the need for a centralized/standardized test of sorts, as well as measures derived from this

2:46 AM

I need to make a wiki page on that sometime. IIRC i did make one on a measure for 3D Printer "throughput" in "Benchys per Hour" or something, let me grab that

2:47 AM

FDM Printers are especially complex to predict given paths and whatnot hange extremely with each model, so that is why i made that one

2:48 AM

But measuring KG shredded per hour doesn't take into account all factors in a shredder (blade design, hopper size, etc), and injection molders/extruders seem hard to measure (at least to me, need to dig if there are industry standards for this measurement)

2:48 AM

Anyhow what do you all think of that? (edited)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqMB8JrR2mg

Trash Panda Disc Golf

Phase 1 is over. . .

https://github.com/luxonis/depthai-hardware

GitHub - luxonis/depthai-hardware: Altium Designs for DepthAI Carri...

Altium Designs for DepthAI Carrier Boards. Contribute to luxonis/depthai-hardware development by creating an account on GitHub.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17nKMpi_Dh5slCqzLSFBoWMxNvWiwt2R-t4e_l7LPLhU/edit#gid=0

COSSI: $100M+ Revenue Commercial Open-Source Software (COSS) Compan...

COSSI COSS Company,FOSS Core,OSS License,Company Creation,Project Creation,OSS Origin,VC Raised (M),Employees,Est. Revenue (M),Est. Valuation (B),Exit Value (B),Public/Private,Status,Outcome,Exit Date,Sector,Business Model,Foundation-Based,Founders (126) Mirantis,

1

Maixduino with the stereo camera optional board. For the price an amazingly capable set up. A board that I have played with some does very similar things. I have the stereo camera for it but have not attached yet. Uses a platformio variant. Uses Micropython variant. Is a k210 chip (think this correct) Which is also supported in regular platformio. https://github.com/sipeed/Maixduino

GitHub - sipeed/Maixduino: Arduino port on Maix board ( k210 )

Arduino port on Maix board ( k210 ). Contribute to sipeed/Maixduino development by creating an account on GitHub.

https://innovationzonefacts.com/ Possibly for the future...

Nevada Innovation Zone Facts

Innovation Zones (IZ) are a unique way to help diversify Nevada’s economy. Recently proposed legislation could help build the economy of the future right here in our state, building a place where technology and talent from around the world comes to create, collaborate and innovate.

https://youtu.be/nwVmUhkF7E4

Library of Economic Possibility

What is the Library of Economic Possibility?

I feel a disturbance in the force

I've been reading a bunch of posts by Yancey Strickler, one of the cofounders of Kickstarter. He has some great insights about post-capitalism

Wesxdz

I've been reading a bunch of posts by Yancey Strickler, one of the cofounders of Kickstarter. He has some great insights about post-capitalism

https://www.ystrickler.com/

Yancey Strickler

Yancey Strickler homepage, blog, news, bio. Kickstarter cofounder and former CEO.

This seems congruent, given that most of Kickstarter is showing monetary support for largely creative goals that aren’t a strictly financial return

8:29 PM

Also Kickstarter employees unionized !

1

Wesxdz

I've been reading a bunch of posts by Yancey Strickler, one of the cofounders of Kickstarter. He has some great insights about post-capitalism

takeaways? would love to read your synopsis, his articles are many

pcuci

takeaways? would love to read your synopsis, his articles are many

Synopsis is try out the Bento method https://bentoism.org/2-the-bento-method

3:10 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-funded_crowdfunding_projects

List of highest-funded crowdfunding projects

This is an incomplete list of the highest-funded crowdfunding projects (including projects which failed to achieve funding).

1

3:10 PM

https://filecoin.io/

A decentralized storage network for humanity's most important infor...

Filecoin is making the web more secure and efficient with a decentralized data storage marketplace, protocol, and cryptocurrency.

3:10 PM

filecoin.io has an amazing landing page

https://solana.com/ignition

Ignition Hackathon

A virtual hackathon with up to $5 million in prizes and seed funding.

1

Should be on your reading list: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3915997 (I have not read it yet. :))

2

1

@Holger has reached level 5. GG!

https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/researchers-3d-print-recycled-plastic-into-affordable-tools-for-african-farmers-196015/

Researchers 3D print recycled plastic into affordable tools for Afr...

Researchers at Loughborough University have recycled plastic waste into low-cost agricultural tools for local African businesses.

1

https://youtu.be/InALPtKrGXU

Stephen Hawes

Using The LumenPnP In Production!

1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG_HJh3hIjc

PBS NewsHour

How Social Entrepreneurs Use Rice Husks to Power India

There is a group that does a ton of great work in india, I think the name of the group is "Development Alternatives" , let me check

https://news.slashdot.org/story/22/06/16/1912200/why-rural-americans-keep-waiting-for-fast-internet-despite-billions-spent

Why Rural Americans Keep Waiting for Fast Internet, Despite Billion...

The U.S. government has spent billions of dollars on several rounds of programs to upgrade internet speeds in rural areas over the past decade. Despite those efforts, many residents are still stuck with service that isn't fast enough to do video calls or stream movies -- speeds that most take for gr...

@mitchell has reached level 5. GG!

https://ispdesign.ui.com/

ISP Design Center

Your all-in-one suite for network planning and profitability tracking

10:18 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZKc3PBs67c

Matthias Wandel

Wifi antenna booster dish

10:19 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_provider

Wireless Internet service provider

A wireless Internet service provider (WISP) is an Internet service provider with a network based on wireless networking. Technology may include commonplace Wi-Fi wireless mesh networking, or proprietary equipment designed to operate over open 900 MHz, 2.4 GHz, 4.9, 5, 24, and 60 GHz bands or licensed frequencies in the UHF band (including the MM...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVAOBMMrWBc

Guardian News

The villagers who DIYed some of the fastest internet in the UK

There was some group, “The Open Network Foundation” or something, it seemed to have fissiled out but it was really neat

9:45 PM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Free_Network_Foundation_Technology

Free Network Foundation Technology

9:45 PM

I guess this was all i posted?

9:46 PM

Especially now that i am better at using Archive.org’s “Wayback Machine” I should dive into their work again sometime.

9:46 PM

I know they also had a few YouTube interviews iirc

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

thanks, great food. Discord - Channels to Markdown directory confirmed

12:21 PM

was wondering to mirror it Discourse or/and MediaWiki as well ..

Already linked in the post above : https://journalopenhw.medium.com/open-hardware-distribution-and-documentation-working-group-pyramids-versus-circles-the-need-for-505a4f3a990. Precious Plastic delivered a good example, now digging in the ashes of over-branding, start-up like attitudes toward stakeholders and investors - leaving them with literally no substance or even a 'viable' product. Back to square one

I believe however that a central entity has it's benefits, distributing wealth, managing waste and lowering risks for the network. Consumers/clients of the very brand are more likely interested to purchase from a strong company than from an individual or small outlet. Distribution is another major key to success.

btw. as small vendor, 'open' or not, you can spend easily 1-2k in fees, CAD, CAM, for SEO, e-mail, books, content creators, ...

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

yep, haven't seen this model really taking off anywhere yet (https://cooperativa.cat/), same for social currencies as 'fair-coin'. perhaps it's picking up steam with the upcoming crises. that's normally the trigger to make people getting organized tho. I suppose as long there's no incentive for people to contribute to the collective's good, there will be always sharks, cowboys, ... taking advantages of whatever is being tried. PreciousPlastic shines with good examples again, turning a Opensource hardware project into a cashcow for a few whilst leaving nothing on the table

Cooperativa el Poblet

Cooperativa per la transformació social mitjançant l'autogestió i el treball en xarxa.

In a monetary world, 'franchise' might be still the best model though. Lovely movie, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4276820/ As for the rest, I have a hard time how up & down stream contribs protocols could work ...

The Founder (2016) - IMDb

The Founder: Directed by John Lee Hancock. With Michael Keaton, Nick Offerman, John Carroll Lynch, Linda Cardellini. The story of Ray Kroc, a salesman who turned two brothers' innovative fast food eatery, McDonald's, into the biggest restaurant business in the world, with a combination of ambition, persistence, and ruthlessness.

10:49 AM

just guessing, not my cup of tea ...

keeper, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcUDITNrBE - no interview with the workers of course - poor things, are that minors ?

Precious Plastic

This Indonesian woman makes $400k recycling plastic

9:43 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcUDITNrBE

To me, that raises again lots of red flags and questions. How free can be 'free', decentralized content/forks/communication & trade ? PP might be an awkward edge case where abuse is normality but who knows, sharks are around every time. Had a look at webtorrent & #gosh-3d-business again but nowhere near.

10:59 PM

Good news however is that it's possible to have a sort of p2p trade docker template - still looking at better back end options; 'Go' got banana and Rust isn't settled yet ... (edited)

https://www.plural.sh/blog/open-source-is-the-way-out-of-a-tech-downturn/, and for the interested reader, crunchbase mailing list : https://www.crunchbase.com/

10:02 PM

OSE/OSR/PP wise however, nothing really good in sight - too many services, riding on enflated tech and capital ...

Wesxdz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-funded_crowdfunding_projects

we're doing it wrong, darling

https://www.benkuhn.net/abyss/

Staring into the abyss as a core life skill

thinking about scary things • examples from Wave • examples from elsewhere • finding a buddy • getting the timing right • a list of abyss questions

7:52 PM

nailed by Camu, https://www2.hawaii.edu/~freeman/courses/phil360/16.%20Myth%20of%20Sisyphus.pdf

7:53 PM

here some of the punch lines on tiktok, https://www.tiktok.com/@americanbaron | https://www.tiktok.com/@americanbaron/video/7159040437645298990?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 (edited)

Not bad, @katharinaelleke , @zelbot - your dirty tricks and abuses caused damages in 6 digit figures, for many of people involved. Good step of yours, answering a better future with censorship and banning .. RIP Precious Plastic, or what's left of it. (edited)

8:21 PM

Detailed report in progress, there are people who want to progress ..

Here the context, not my best writing tho

Hey everyone,

what's the plan for PreciousPlastic in 2023? 

This year was a catastrophe so far. Numerous job losses, people's investments, retirement but also their reputation have been put on the edge - if not lost; and myself in a pretty awful situation, facing lawsuits, and tremendous work (5-10 years) to recover the damages for everyone involved. If I'm lucky, we don't need to leave the country ... The upcoming global problems won't make it easier. Venture capital dropped by 70%, compared to 2021.

The 'new rules' have also other bad impacts on small-scale recycling, such as the general discovery of talents, projects, etc... Most of the new designs, enhancements, and fixes - have been financed through the Bazar discovery, in the last 4 years. That includes supporting the rare talents we have around.

However, re-evaluating the existing portfolio, v3-v4 but also OSR-plastic enhancements & designs, based on user & customer feedback and needs, I'd suggest splitting the project into several parts, aiming for a success-oriented approach, for the entire chain, eg: builder and user.

9:15 PM

1. v3 should be refined/re-designed, less waste, risk, and resources ( and disappointment ) - aiming for the educational and enthusiasts camp, ideally classroom grade equipment - also to increase the educational value of courses. Refinements, addons, etc... for lab usage could be added once a good foundation allows collaborative methods (distributed design). We have some proposals for that in the drawer as well. 

2. v4 requires unfortunately too much labor and professional equipment, rendering its current price/value ratio beyond reasonable - and yet, it doesn't address SME or professional needs. Open to suggestions but composing industrial solutions into more tailored solutions may have the best outcome, in the long run. That would also allow having some buffer for other side projects.

3. Networking, allocation of funds, etc... deserves more coordinated attention. I'd suggest that dedicated working groups could create a good plan, eg: visits to fair trades, finding sponsors, etc.

all the best & godspeed,

g

ps: dm me for questions or hints.

9:18 PM

Once again, I'd like to emphasize that OS indeed may have a chance .. The class room could be a good start

9:22 PM

Other than technical aspects, I figured that spiritual enhancements - as painful it is, truth - indeed flips all up-side-down. There are a few stages one has to pass - devaluation followed by enlightening is the crucial part, if you want or take it. After that, it's just a matter of doing.

9:24 PM

So watch out, for falsehood, false gurus, false claims - often comes with worshipping ... a smart machinery, grinding folks till no longer of use ... Happy new year

ah, before I forget it, that's what I end up with, for OSR, or whatever name it will have

1. what does it do to the individual 2. what does it do to the group 3. redundant but worth it to mention: what does 1. & 2. to 'it'

For the interested reader, Melisa nailed it. https://www.tiktok.com/@melisa_arnautovic/video/7173270397520071942?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Without intention of mockery, gaslighting, ... we found it extremely fascinating that a few very dull, empty, uninterested, backgroundless, ... characters and their dogs - well rewarded - managed to spin off indeed that evil cycle of the ´Gervais principles´ (great read for quitters :-), living from the short lifecycles of trespassers, a 500k-2M production, with nothing but some bucks made on Patreon, ... I can´t help myself but explaining all that cruelty with reasons I don´t want to know .. https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ (edited)

Venkatesh Rao

The Gervais Principle, Or The Office According to “The Office”

My neighbor introduced me to The Office back in 2005. Since then, I’ve watched every episode of both the British and American versions. I’ve watched the show obsessively because I&#8217…

CitizenSh**Shop (@Leavemealone) , not bad performance so far, ZERO contribs, 200+ contacts killed, 3 networks ruined, plenty of running and potential projects fucked - whilst watching you, and PP Mafia plundering and raping everything and everyone else around, through the front and back door - PP HQ asking on top money for all that, killing everything what´s left for the so called disposable, Garry, Baki, PlasticHub, Timberstar, Jason, ... wondering why you´re around at all (edited)

but hey, dont worry, we understand Dave Hakken´s statement ´we like it rather quite here´ ... you´re a good choice

----------------------------------- Anyway, it´s 2023 - I hope we can leave that dark times behind. Still wondering what´s the next step. Combining OSE/PP/OSR/PH & maker efforts makes most sense though. Perhaps we have an expert around who understands blockchains, something which would allow us to create incentives for OS contributions, unaffected from central power ...

@Mafia Freie Zone has reached level 4. GG!

the needed tooling, etc... became clear so far, https://git.osr-plastic.org/osr-plastic/system/src/branch/master/_pages/packages%20-%20q1.jpg - still a few years away from mature but works for most cases

11:17 PM

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

nice, one of the more sexy things I´ve seen recently. CERN didn´t really appeal to me but felt safe with it through the years

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

I don't want to be rude, but we can agree the purpose of this discord channel is to talk about OSE right? It isn't the place to talk about all the issues with Precious Plastic. And If I were in your situation, I'd pour my heart into a huge series of blog post, and then somehow get myself free from this leadership and do something else. You take the position of the martyr, of the victim, but what if you quit supporting this organization and used your talents in something else? First thing that comes to mind is electronics recycling instead of plastic recycling, as it's also a business involving shredding and metal work. The benefit is that selling metals is way more profitable than plastic objects. Or you could somehow find other revenue streams that are not dependent on the teach, like doing metalwork training (education is a great business). Also I'd recommend you quit using discord (your attention deserves to be direct on machines and innovation, not endless feuds), get income in the most direct/low-friction optionality you can find (sell whatever you can, or get a job). To get rid of the flu, get outside everyday and take magnesium chloride. You can get out of this hole you've dug for yourself, if you allow yourself to believe it can be much easier than you think to do so. Let go of that weight you've been carrying for years, allow yourself to succeed and get free of the shadow of precious plastic. you're better than this

happy to see btw. the net mobilizing for exposure and truths, globally - 2023 seems to be the year of awakening, ... time to break old power structures, mainly designed for slavery, ... https://www.tiktok.com/@introverts008/video/7190018165554826502

Tajana on TikTok

Tajana's short video with ♬ original sound

Didnt mean to offend you, just hoped to help you find some peace but I cannot, and I dont know the full context. Apologies for speaking on things I know nothing about. Hoping that things will get better for you at some point, I send my prayers and encouragement

Ah, at some point - there's some business logic/messaging needed, between cs-cart, Discourse and service providers. Not sure AMQP is still a thing. Also looking for an alternative to RQL (querying sub systems)

1

still, wondering why automatisch got downvoted, ...

@KatBot Retirement Fund has reached level 2. GG!

------------------------- On top of exorbitant labor, there is a dozen of other trades one has to master, SEO, a bunch of script languages, etc... to get an idea from zero to market. I looked at Crunchbase and others but can't make sense of it. The little maker still faces massive obstacles. Perhaps I missed some new ways, ... OpenAI doesn't seem very compelling either.

11:54 PM

A pool of shared resources, to pimp whatever brand stack in a copy paste style could certainly help. Open to suggestions

Alrighty, still in it's infancy but the first layer getting shape, primarily dealing with basic concepts of a 'core'. next layer is about data acquisition and organization, as well it's storage, indexing, etc ... after that, distribution, deployment (social media, forum, shops, ...) Feedback loops as described in ISO9001 is on the radar as well.

http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs224w/

12:52 AM

http://networksciencebook.com/chapter/0

Network Science by Albert-László Barabási

The power of network science, the beauty of network visualization.

12:53 AM

I have been thinking more about osh business models and realized that one problem is potentially a lack of collaboration threshold

12:54 AM

I think that the urge to DIY every part of a project can lead to burnout or difficulty compared to purchasing, but I think that possibilities like using an LLM to aquire BOM or do better project planning through graph theory could help. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

1

Wesxdz

I think that the urge to DIY every part of a project can lead to burnout or difficulty compared to purchasing, but I think that possibilities like using an LLM to aquire BOM or do better project planning through graph theory could help. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'm of the opinion the current state of the art tooling (i.e., spreadsheets and Wiki pages) are too slow at capturing/maintaining/updating BOM and/or assembly instructions for OSHW and that we need to adopt a new approach that's more akin to how we manage projects in open-source software. The founder of the Mach 30 foundation gave a talk on what such an approach would look like at the recent Southern California Linux Expo https://youtu.be/qIMT--XEZiM

Southern California Linux Expo

Fire, Smoke, and Open Source Hardware

1

Cant say anthing about protocols, ... or graphs but watching the pace OSHW is moving, we might be 5-10 years away from similar collaborations at scale as seen in the software world. Semi-conductor business is currently paving the way.. (edited)

1:14 AM

Even with the best tools for the job, as Solidworks, and PDM (product configuration / managment) - it's a fulltime job to handle it. Custom APIs, etc... not included.

303adastra

I'm of the opinion the current state of the art tooling (i.e., spreadsheets and Wiki pages) are too slow at capturing/maintaining/updating BOM and/or assembly instructions for OSHW and that we need to adopt a new approach that's more akin to how we manage projects in open-source software. The founder of the Mach 30 foundation gave a talk on what such an approach would look like at the recent Southern California Linux Expo https://youtu.be/qIMT--XEZiM

yo this is amazing, let's get the GVCS to the moon on an open source rocket hehe

2

Let's make some money from OSH

️

1

303adastra

I'm of the opinion the current state of the art tooling (i.e., spreadsheets and Wiki pages) are too slow at capturing/maintaining/updating BOM and/or assembly instructions for OSHW and that we need to adopt a new approach that's more akin to how we manage projects in open-source software. The founder of the Mach 30 foundation gave a talk on what such an approach would look like at the recent Southern California Linux Expo https://youtu.be/qIMT--XEZiM

really liked around min 16-18

1

I would like to find some resources on purchase vs self-fabrication expediency for open source hardware ecologies if anyone has ideas

Latest Duck Elevator Machine, 400g+ forum tracker : https://forum.osr-plastic.org/t/arbor-injection-elena-zmax-motor/10781 #iwantokeepitformyself

#forsurenotsustainablebutagreatstart #katbotjailed #polymerterror #thermalmisconfigurator

8:22 PM

was built for a young company, developing casings for electronics, outputs up to 500g

Anne vs. the Mafia

Latest Duck Elevator Machine, 400g+ forum tracker : https://forum.osr-plastic.org/t/arbor-injection-elena-zmax-motor/10781 #iwantokeepitformyself

#forsurenotsustainablebutagreatstart #katbotjailed #polymerterror #thermalmisconfigurator

What would you use this for?

I heard that people inject plastic into moulds with it

6:11 AM

we however, use it to prove that Opensource actually works; well, and to annoy the competition

@Anne vs. the Mafia has reached level 1. GG!

However, the machine on the right resembles more or less low-tech efforts of the last 5 years, mostly used for buzzword activities, producing stuff for demos (stuff nobody really needs

- and the one on the left finally enables predictable shots, as requested by small companies, beyond the 150g limits :). To me, it paves the way to start working on a fully automated setup, using/combining an extruder as feed. That would allow us to replicate agriculture/farming and perhaps food & pharma components .. I am so excited, more than a grown up should be tho

(edited)

Btw. - 'Openhardware Business', or in our case, 'eating our own dogfood'. The OSR (is just a test) stack more or less settled on Discourse, Gitea, Hugo, and a toolchain to help with documentation (CAD, CAM, Electrics). Still wondering to deploy this as one-click SASS. Not familar with containerizing, my last attempts with Rancher & Co failed. However, the idea is as said to provide small organizations, individuals, ... with tools, to distribute content, and perhaps sell products. Perhaps there are services to deploy and offer this ...

7:56 AM

a bit dated, https://git.osr-plastic.org/osr-plastic/system/src/branch/master/diagrams

7:58 AM

At the moment, it can deal with the needs of Fablabs, OSE, OSR and even R&D projects as TheFlipFlopi (https://www.instagram.com/theflipflopi/) in developing countries, sure almighty @katharinaelleke can add her 2 cents

That’s cool!

Yeah, the lion chunk of work, goes into maintaining, recomposing, ... data (CAD, tests, docs) - pretty much the biggest obstacle and barrier to get folks into it ...

Anne vs. the Mafia

However, the machine on the right resembles more or less low-tech efforts of the last 5 years, mostly used for buzzword activities, producing stuff for demos (stuff nobody really needs

- and the one on the left finally enables predictable shots, as requested by small companies, beyond the 150g limits :). To me, it paves the way to start working on a fully automated setup, using/combining an extruder as feed. That would allow us to replicate agriculture/farming and perhaps food & pharma components .. I am so excited, more than a grown up should be tho

(edited)

Sorry, I should've phrased my question a little better; I meant to ask, "what specific parts would you want to injection mold first?"

Hard to tell, product design, application, etc... wasn´t on my plate til recently. For now it´s looking good, but I have to find a better controller to make sure that shots are 100% repeatable and predictable (https://www.instagram.com/stories/lovebird_opensource/3209869743205410070/). It´s outcompeting 3D print by 10-20 times, in the 300 - 400g range, by time, and surface finish

9:42 PM

As much I love the controllino mini (140$), I´d need a few more DACs.

9:44 PM

However, people do prototyping but also small batches, shoe soles (TPU, 350g) with that .. time will tell (edited)

Anne vs. the Mafia

Hard to tell, product design, application, etc... wasn´t on my plate til recently. For now it´s looking good, but I have to find a better controller to make sure that shots are 100% repeatable and predictable (https://www.instagram.com/stories/lovebird_opensource/3209869743205410070/). It´s outcompeting 3D print by 10-20 times, in the 300 - 400g range, by time, and surface finish

Looks like a froyo dispenser at the moment

well, it punches holes too

@Anne vs. the Mafia has reached level 2. GG!

Dumb question, can it injection-mold recycled HDPE or PP plastics? I've been trying to decide whether I should be saving my recycle code 2 and 5 plastics

this, and a few other types, tried also exotic stuff (modern bottle materials, amorphous), as for the time & money, I am sure there´s more pleasure with other things

Fascinating...

10:01 PM

Another possibly dumb question (as I'm kind of ignorant when it comes to injection-molding processes), but would I be able to injection-mold something like a 50 gal rain barrel?

there are no dumb questions, ... not in one go, but you could mount a welder on a rotary, to knit all the slices together .. fun stuff

1

10:04 PM

https://forum.osr-plastic.org/t/plastic-welding-overview/10188

10:04 PM

I think that´s more a case for rotary casting tho (powder @ intertia ) (edited)

Anne vs. the Mafia

I think that´s more a case for rotary casting tho (powder @ intertia ) (edited)

Gotcha. Another thing I'll have to read up on