Open Source Ecology - marketing

This channel is dedicated to OSE's planning and discussion of marketing efforts

What do y'all think of my "sidenote" on this page:

2:22 AM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Degeneracy

Degeneracy

2:22 AM

as a...c o m p l e x p e r s o n, it is kinds edgy in my biased opinion

2:23 AM

but with a PILE of work it could be "reclaimed" like the n word with african american culture, or queer for LGBT+ culture, some jewish slang etc

2:23 AM

but those words took decades to centuries, and still often lead to confusion of intent/meaning

2:24 AM

ie me using nword not spamming the REAL thing like some schoolyard kid lol

Hi Eric. It's a little startling for this to be the first message one sees when coming in to discuss marketing. Per the Wiki Instructions, you should be using the discuss tab to raise issues like these. That way you can mention your reservations, and they can be properly addressed and documented. As the side note causes more confusion than it solves, I've deleted it. The word "degeneracy" or "degenerate" is used in other sciences as well, as noted in the article itself. It is very apt to describe what happens to some toolchains. People are able to understand from the context. Nor is there any need to reference "subhuman", Ben Shapiro, PragerU , "the reclamation of slurs" in OSE materials. (edited)

definetly, sorry about that

?

No problem! The question itself is probably one others will have. I notice you're a big contributor, that's very cool

Can anyone tell me where I can find the logs of the developers who produced images such as the one seen here: https://opensourceecology.dozuki.com/c/Microhouse_Development#Section_Development_Board_Link ?

Microhouse Development

Below is a link to the MicroHouse 1 Development Board, the repository for all the links and assets for the MH 1 design.

i'll try digging around the wiki

OK, same! Thanks

i think there was some "art page" idk

8:06 PM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Media_Repository

Media Repository

Ah yes this looks like a good start. Much appreciated

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/High_Resolution_GVCS_Media

High Resolution GVCS Media

ah yes, Jean-Baptiste log located

Is there a page with all the logs, or no? I'll dig if not i'll make one lol

8:14 PM

Not sure how complete, but i found this one i guess https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Logs

Logs

8:14 PM

i know some of the OLD stuff can get odd with documentation/interlinking

yep yep

@goldfishlaser#1337 has reached level 1. GG!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce4oluQxyc0

Thomas Sanladerer

The next "BIG" thing: Prusa Mini review!

8:26 PM

got a decent "industry standard" comparison to the universal i guess

8:26 PM

i need to see if i put that down in one of the pages

8:26 PM

It is now "officially released" too, not just pre-release fact sheets

Interesting... do you already have Printrbot? That's one we used at a local makercamp.

I don't have anything so far, i am planning on getting a prusa mk3 as a "just works" printer then using that to make D3D's, a belt 3d printer, and some impractically fast H-Bot long term

8:29 PM

never heard of printerbot, but does seem like a good example too!

Yeah def check it out. My "just works" printer is a Flashforge Creator Pro. I am also thinking of building a D3D... But when I originally was building my Prusa Mendel, Someone sent me a mini extruder instead of the extruder I ordered, and I've always wondered what I should do with it.

dual extruders, i'm jealous lol

yeah I was really lucky, a friend of mine wanted the Prusa Mk3 so he sold it to me at a steal

could it be repurposed to a d3d build? ALSO i was plotting some sort of FDM Pen made with 3d printer componets

Right? Yeah that's usually where my head goes too. Some sort of pen.

i hade some basic page somewhere, and it might be a bit thick for a pen but essentally the same parts as a FDM printer, but minus the motors, and all attached

yeah... will see. Right now I have to reprint some parts that got damaged on the Prusa, and my wiring management was absolute shiiiit. But it really would be a shame to not use it. I even got it a nice LCD screen and everything lol. I had a lot of issues with clogging back in the day.... It was pretty validating to see on the OSE wiki that it wasn't just me....

i have yet to master the art of cable managment. I barely even zip tye 2/3 of the time. My end goal is this level:

8:39 PM

mostly data centers, but great stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/cableporn/

r/cableporn

oh yeah, everybody loves cableporn lol. There should be a class

I'm about to do a large edit on this page: https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/D3D_Universal_Industry_Standards

D3D Universal Industry Standards

9:02 PM

any idea why the word "art" is used? I'm attempted to change/remove that, but unsure if it has an intentional use

do you mean "prior art"? or somewhere else

10:00 PM

prior art is a technical term

ah, didn't know that (edited)

yeah it is most often used in the context of the patent system, but it has a broader meaning as well

@goldfishlaser#1337 has reached level 2. GG!

you said printrbot isn't open source, but it is

ah sorry, i have NO knowledge on it, feel free to fill in!

I'm kinda busy doing some documentation stuff at the moment, so for now its up to you ha

10:04 PM

Maybe I can take a look later

10:06 PM

and fyi my extent working on that was supervising some high school kids who were the ones who actually built it

10:07 PM

It was pretty cool, they were up and running in a few hours

10:07 PM

but its years ago so I don't think I would mark me down as an expert or anything lol

ah interesting. apprently a couple years ago printrbot ceased operations. that in itself is interesting though!

10:33 PM

https://hackaday.com/2018/07/19/a-farewell-to-printrbot/

Tom Nardi

A Farewell To Printrbot

It’s with a heavy heart that we must report Printrbot has announced they are ceasing operations. Founded in 2011 after a wildly successful Kickstarter campaign, the company set out to make 3D…

I wonder if we might want to modify our license to make startups possible. Something like: Any modifications of code must be made available to the maintainers of the original open source repositories. Or:

Any monetary transactions around these systems or derived systems must be made using our (crypto, tax, etc.) transaction system.

Currently, Open Source is pretty good for resumes, and for systems that are used by absolutely everyone, but not self-funding startups. (edited)

@SimLeek has reached level 5. GG!

@SimLeek There isn't anything about open source licenses, or even free or libre licenses, that prevent the use of the technology in startups. Open source is a part of a huge number of startups, even if some of it is fake open source. Enabling people to make startups is at the heart of the Distributed Enterprise philosophy? What license do you mean exactly? There are a few different licenses depending on what you're talking about. https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_License_for_Distributive_Economics Telling people they couldn't charge for providing the systems or derived systems is contrary to the ethic? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your rationale for this one.

OSE License for Distributive Economics

Of course nothing in open source prevents that, but nothing enables or incentivizes startups to develop open source technology at all. In fact, competing companies being able to take the source and use it is a huge disincentive, which some open source licenses allow, and some don't.

5:20 AM

There is a good incentive for open source with security though, and with companies that allow people outside of their company to contribute. However, in those cases, the person contributing to the code is not necessarily getting paid to do so, unless it's already part of another job they're in.

5:22 AM

And I definitely wasn't saying anything about telling people they couldn't charge.

I meant charge via whatever system they want to

@goldfishlaser#1337 has reached level 3. GG!

ah

5:24 AM

Well, in that case, enforcing a specific system of charging allows developers to get, well, literally any money at all specifically for developing code

5:24 AM

Otherwise, it's a roundabout method

5:25 AM

In the crypto case, it's similar to investing stock into something, and early contributors get more of the initial cryptocurrency, which grows as the system is used

5:26 AM

In the other case, it would be more of a flat income based on how much the product developed is used

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/FAQ#Just_out_of_curiosity.2C_how_is_showing_someone_how_to_build_your_machine_in_a_workshop_for_pay_opensource.3F_Not_trying_to_be_sarcastic.2C_just_don.27t_really_understand_the_whole_idea_of_opensource_and_not_charging_people_for_your_designs.2Cor_knowledge.2C_etc_-_I_just_always_though_the_term_.22opensource.22_meant_giving_your_knowledge_out_freely.

FAQ

Seems idealistic

5:31 AM

Now that I think about it, is there actually a business plan?

5:32 AM

Like a spreadsheet going about three years or so out into the future, calculating when break even is, or when we could expand?

How much time have you spent on the wiki?

a few days tbh, but mostly looking at the machines

ok... just kinda keep looking around. I have a bit of work to get back into but I can see you're very new to all this and I just encourage you to search for your questions.

hmm...

could start with extreme enterprise and distributed production etc. see what you think

alright

It is a project that's a little rough around the edges, and yeah it's idealistic. But there is substance behind it. Imho.

Fair. I've made some business plans, so I'll double check

Hmm... I agree that non-commercial licenses wouldn't work for this, but the stuff on the wiki still seems really idealistic. Short term, the class thing will work, but long term, the open source base would have a hard time advancing due to the high cost of hardware development. I think due to the high costs of hardware development, the license should be modified to support those costs. This still seems fair to me:

Anyone using the information here for commercial purposes (over $x dollars yearly income) must either:
A. Make any changes known to the current maintainers, and available for commercial or other purposes. This rule overrides any patents based on modifications to this source.
B. Agree to pay a fixed one-time amount, regular fee, or percent of income gained from products developed using the information in this repository.

(edited)

6:26 AM

That would be an open source license that allows for commercial distribution.

6:28 AM

Setting over $500,000 or so yearly would allow for small startups to use the information, then decide.

6:33 AM

Hmm, looks like part A is the TAPR open hardware license

Yeah, TAPR and CERN OHL both work, though the thing I wrote is actually more permissive. (and can fund pure R&D) (edited)

also quick thoughts - what incentivizes creation is wanting something to exist. the only time money incentivizes creation is when it's someone who doesn't have the time wants something to exist. what incentivizes sharing creation freely is getting creation freely.

Hmm... maybe not incentivizes, but enables

1:19 AM

You can't buy stuff to create stuff with without money

1:20 AM

Also, that 'the only time' you mentioned is basically how most tech companies work. No one has the time to make everything.

1:25 AM

I disagree about the last one. There are more things that incentivize sharing creations, like improving your resume/reputation, helping others, etc. And if sharing in some cases doesn't also help with those, people may be less inclined to share. There are also negative incentives, like beating you to market with your ideas. The license should make sure to maximize all of those incentives and minimize all the disincentives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle

Hype cycle

The hype cycle is a branded graphical presentation developed and used by the American research, advisory and information technology firm Gartner to represent the maturity, adoption, and social application of specific technologies. The hype cycle claims to provide a graphical and conceptual presentation of the maturity of emerging technologies th...

12:39 AM

neat bit i found the other day (granted not sCientIfic and all that as the criticisms pointed out)

https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

15 Insane Things That Correlate With Each Other

Why do these things correlate? These 15 correlations will blow your mind. (Is this headline sensationalist enough for you to click on it yet?)

6:05 AM

granted graphs can be odd

6:06 AM

similar-ish concept i guess too

@Deleted User has reached level 8. GG!

m o u n t s t u p i d

also known as peak of false enlightenment

6:15 AM

"zenith of ignorance"

6:16 AM

"monte de la Ignorancia"