archived-dao-dev

hey everyone. As a side project we started to dive a bit into the world of crypto. Trying to see if it makes sense for OA, how it works, what it servers, looking if the potential outweighs the environmental impact. Heavy complex questions into a fast evolving technology. This channel is mainly to gather enthusiast and experts that want to help and explore. For now: We have created 1. One Army Coin (OAC) https://coin.onearmy.earth/ 2. It's an ERC-20 (ethereum) token https://etherscan.io/address/0xf17e9e4e32d842e4ddfbed5750a26f7bd77777ee 3. Running on this Exchange: https://tokpie.com/dashboard/make_request/oac-eth/ 4: Listed on Coingeko: https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/one-army-coin 5. Whats next?

ONE ARMY COIN: OAC Token | 0xf17e9e4e32d842e4ddfbed5750a26f7bd77777ee

The Contract Address 0xf17e9e4e32d842e4ddfbed5750a26f7bd77777ee page allows users to view the source code, transactions, balances, and analytics for the contract address. Users can also interact and make transactions to the contract directly on Etherscan.

One Army Coin price, OAC price index, chart, and info | CoinGecko

Get One Army Coin price, OAC chart in real-time, volume, market cap, exchanges and more.

Hi guys, I saw the one page site of OAC and if find it misleading

1:39 PM

"The moment anyone purchases tokens the overal value of OAC increase. Giving us more capital to execute projects and reward the other OAC owners, including your future self"

1:43 PM

this point remind me only of some Ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme, it is not good that the main utility of this coin is only to increase his value... also because something like this can be subject to securities regulations

1:45 PM

I can imagine the OAC coin to be an utility coin: rewarded to people participating in the discord servers or people posting projects resources on the forum or people buying and selling objects on the bazar

1:49 PM

and then people with this token can participate in the community votes for proposals or new projects implementation. in this way the value of OAC would be linked to the importance and responsability of partecipating in the governance of a DAO (Decantralized Autonomous Organization)

hey thanks for the feedback! Yeh that was just a rough first outline, still trying to find the role/use of this coin. From my perspective. It does kinda work like that though, Ethereum gets developed by the increased value it got overtime. This value (tokens sold for $) is used to fund bountys and dev work.. So early adaptors of ETH benefit heavily of the popularity it gained and now own more value Still trying to find the difference between a pyramid and that..

3:23 PM

To me this seems like a very powerful way for getting resources for development, but yeh generally not a popular approach and gives a bad taste.. Agree that a utility token would for sure be a good fit to us though, but seems hard to get of the ground and implement.

the numbers just dont add up man

Jerry de Vos

the numbers just dont add up man

hehe that i know. signature move

@emanuele pigionatti Thank you for telling @davehakkens what i also told him

1

just saw this on the Nexo Token. Isn't that the same mechanism? -genuinely curious to this (edited)

Not sure @davehakkens I believe their thing is that they'll put tons of resources into developing this crypto and if you buy their token you'll earn alongside them. From your thing seems more give us the money, the more people gives money the more everyone gets money. But seems like we wouldn't do anything to develop OAC or its technology.

1:58 PM

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but usually coins and crypto are setup and developed by highly technical team/companies that have a core tech drive to make the crypto better. Improving the technology and bringing about an innovation within that world. Up for disrupting that concept but taking a no-tech approach to that world seems risky

I'm pretty sure Nexo doesnt do anything to improve their token. They are quite static. It's also running on ERC-20 (Ethereum) like us. If Ethereum blockchain improves, they improve. But it's not up to them. Nexo might improve their own platform, find more ways to distribute the token, create reward programs etc. But I would say thats about it..

Nexo unlike OAC is thought of as an utility token: it's "The World’s First Dividend-Paying Asset-Backed Token" and it gives holders some benefits with interest on assets and some dividends yearly distributed to the community as shown on the token page. Instead: what are the benefits and utilities of OAC for an investor? Otherwise if It's only for charity and crowfunding it is simplier to accept crypto donations

yeh I would see OAC more like a charity (until we come up with utilities like that

️) It's more fun than a donation because you get a coin in return. A coin that might become something valuable/useful in the future. + You could always get money back if you stop believing in the project by selling it again. No direct benefits as an investor I guess it has similarities to something like dogecoin, kinda useless as a utility. *most People support for the fun of it. But if you where an early supporter holding many tokens you benefit a lot from all that community support. (In our case we would be holding 60% of tokens to distribute for meaning full projects ) But I would still be curious if that is considered illegal or a pyramid.. (edited)

I have a very half baked idea. In my opinion the reason that a community / protocol like Ethereum is so powerful is that it aligns the self interest of the individual with the interests of the community. The more apps that get built on Ethereum, the more valuable ETH is, and the more the community benefits. Essentially network effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect Been asking the question a lot with Precious Plastic - how to incentivize the improvers of the recycling machine designs to share this back to the community? Right now there is only a negative incentive - if they share then another machine builder can take those designs and compete for marketshare. What if there was a way to tokenize the designs, so that every-time they are improved, the underlying token becomes more valuable. I feel like something could be worked out with NFTs. So as long as the machine builder was a holder of this token, they would in theory have an incentive to share back. https://decrypt.co/68501/ibm-is-turning-patents-into-nfts (edited)

Network effect

In economics, a network effect (also called network externality or demand-side economies of scale) is the phenomenon by which the value or utility a user derives from a good or service depends on the number of users of compatible products. Network effects are typically positive, resulting in a given user deriving more value from a product as oth...

IBM Is Turning Patents Into NFTs - Decrypt

IBM has announced it is using its own blockchain technology to transform corporate patents into non-fungible tokens with the help of IPwe.

also very good article here https://medium.com/@rutgervz/blockchain-and-tokenization-beyond-the-hype-8bacd3c43481

Blockchain and Tokenization: Beyond the Hype

The Commonization of our Digital Infrastructure

this channels is made for half baked ideas

so with this we could upload the shredder Model 2.0 blueprint to create an NFT and sell it

1

dream scenario for Precious Plastic

1

https://opensea.io/

OpenSea: Buy NFTs, Crypto Collectibles, CryptoKitties, Decentraland...

A peer-to-peer marketplace for rare digital items and crypto collectibles. Buy, sell, auction, and discover CryptoKitties, Decentraland, Gods Unchained cards, blockchain game items, and more. Over 100,000 collectibles on sale now!

It's hard for me to wrap my head around the digital art thing. But music i can more relate to. This is an interesting example of how the NFT also includes exclusive benefits. That's kinda cool. And the fact that the original creator gets a percentage fee everytime it's sold is

. Just thinking like a blueprints of the shredder with an exclusive lazercut file embedded there with a cool design or somethin. Maybe the eth address on one of the plates https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/kings-of-leon-when-you-see-yourself-album-nft-crypto-1135192/

Samantha Hissong

Kings of Leon Will Be the First Band to Release an Album as an NFT

The band’s revolutionary tokens will unlock special perks like limited-edition vinyl and front row seats to future concerts

another half baked idea based on that

️ : Useful = OAC Members: buy coins to support the content they like Workspaces: Receive those coins Owning many OAC shows a dedicated member, they either make good content or support financially (merge of patreons and community contributors)

I have collected some resources and articles to deepen the NFT technology and potentials on a twitter thread : https://twitter.com/emapigio/status/1376945338355957764?s=20

Emanuele Pigionatti (@emapigio)

NFTs ARTIST BEGINNER ALMANAC (resources,articles,data etc...)

@emanuele pigionatti do you see nft potential for precious plastic / one army ?

Yes sure! I can image minting artworks: badges, short video, trailer or graphics to celebrate certain goals achieved by the One Army community: for example for Precius Plastic V.5 launching date One Army will mint alongside an artwork celebrating the result, who buy it will be donating and giving support to the project while receiving also something nice in return (it's like the Patreon stickers incentive), thanks to a fixed suply (100 pieces) it can appreciate also in time if the following and attention to the project grow, and in future every time, and if, one of this badges sold the One Army will always receive 10% all future sales (numbers are arbitrary)

7:08 PM

Look at this for badges examples https://www.poap.xyz/ POAP is a software system that allows humans to collect badges (in the form of non fungible tokens) every time they participate in an activity, in person or remotely

POAP

The Proof of Attendance Protocol.

Feels like community voting is coming. At Gitcoin and Nexo.. Could be a very powerful thing for us in the future (edited)

11:41 AM

First Nexo community vote

Governance could be the utility of the token

12:27 PM

Which puts it more in the legal direction (edited)

Gitcoin has a cool way of getting the tokens. Instead of just everyone that every created an account. You first answer a few questions to see if you understand what Gitcoin is and then they verifiy wheter you actually used it.. To filter out the "real" community

that is cool

12:49 PM

And then they airdrop the tokens?

not sure, never made it to step 3

Yes, the airdrop arrive after 2 min of “effort”: basically you only need to answer 3 questions and delegate or choose on which percentage distribute your vote, but anyway I’m curious to see how the governance will evolve in the next months

since you can only exchange oac for eth, it was tied to the value of eth initially, but now it seems the graphs start to drift, does anyone know why?

4:37 PM

it seems the traiding volume halved from 60k to 30k

4:38 PM

on the 26th of july

What do people thinking about us minting an nft for the pp blueprints https://creativecommons.org/2021/05/04/at-the-intersection-of-nfts-and-creative-commons-licenses/

Catherine Stihler

At the Intersection of NFTs and Creative Commons Licenses - Creativ...

Like many people on the internet, we here at Creative Commons have been thinking about NFTs, and the possibilities that unique digital assets might bring for artists and creators. (By the way, did you know that Beeple, the artist who famously sold an NFT for $69 million, has been using CC licenses for years?) Most … Read More "At the Intersectio...

Also just brainstorming here, what if we minted 1000 copies of a new machine and sold them as nfts. We don't "open source" it. You have to buy one of those nfts to read them. People can buy and sell these of course.

https://www.citydao.io/

CityDAO

I don't know if anyone is in here

10:09 PM

but I pooped out an idea on tokenizing precious plastic https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pqFrmHhgRB0Ju4K1w7SSsTvm9i8cCmJq7KPjXmAxglQ/edit#slide=id.g1010c00e91c_0_5

Precious Plastic Coin

Precious Plastic x Web 3.0

Hey @Joseph couldn't comment on the above so here a few comments:

Bazar budget as burning mechanism seems minimal
"Precious Plastic DAO Treasury to fund community contribution rewards" isn't this treasury finite?
Gotta be careful not to drive the focus of the community exclusively towards certain areas.. or rather gotta tokenize what pp needs in the long run but some of those ones are hard to put a price on
Looks good, in its nascent form but it is exciting.. hopefully it bring more spam bots to discord

Yes that's why we would need to push Bazar ALOT. And give us a good incentive. And as we would airdrop tokens to existing sellers, THEY would have a big incentive to sell ON bazar.
the tokens are finite yes. But the value of each token is not finite. So the treasurey could grow indefinitely in value
ya
bring em on . I just joined a few new servers with re-captcha bots that will stop them if we need

We could also have sellers Stake their PPC to be featured on Bazar (edited)

Why would people use PPC rather than established cryptos like ETH or BIT?

Because you would not be able to vote with Eth. You need PPC.

6:09 PM

I made some updates to the slides above

Joseph

Because you would not be able to vote with Eth. You need PPC.

oh yes, for DAO indeed makes more sense

7:23 PM

Is the logic as follow? You want people to govern the project > Ok, but which people? > Ideally the most invested in the project > How do you measure that? > PPC > The more someone works or contributes to the project > the more PPC earns > Or the more someone invests literally by buying PPC (this part I don't like) > the more say s/he would have on the voting > You have a DAO (edited)

@Mattia yeah i'd say yeah that's a good sum up. But it more starts from the fact that we want people to contribute to the project.

3:47 PM

Concerning the rich PPC people having more say, I'd say this is addressed by the fact that the core team first puts the proposals on the forum. This allows people feedback and or alternative proposals. This is where they are "vibe checking" the community for what they want. Then they use the voting to essentially confirm the vibe check was correct. So I don't see people buying in control as being a problem. If it really is a problem, we can use quadratic voting, which is a mechanism to address that issue https://docs.snapshot.org/proposals/voting-types#quadratic-voting (edited)

Voting types

Learn more about the different ways you can vote on Snapshot

Ok the channel is growing !

aiiiiii name change!

BOOM

1

Epic. Should we move it to PP channel? If its only for PPC?

Sure

Hey guys! Excited to be here

I met @Joseph on Commons Stack server and had a call together with @Mattia last week. I have started to contact a few people on Commons Stack and Token Engineering

PS. We run a small workshop in Tanzania.

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Hey guys! Excited to be here

I met @Joseph on Commons Stack server and had a call together with @Mattia last week. I have started to contact a few people on Commons Stack and Token Engineering

PS. We run a small workshop in Tanzania.

glad to have you with us !!!!

1

I have invited @enti to this channel (do I have rights to do so?). He is a contributor on 1Hive and we are in touch since he posted about bridging crypto and real life communities (https://forum.1hive.org/t/gardens-for-real-world-communities/4271). He can surely contribute to the discussion on community/governance (edited)

1

I'm not sure exactly how the whole rights thing of this channel works haha

6:29 PM

but I just added him

6:32 PM

OK so it's a "role" in order to view this channel . That role is now called PPC

6:34 PM

HI @enti ! nice to have you here. This is some info we have so far https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pqFrmHhgRB0Ju4K1w7SSsTvm9i8cCmJq7KPjXmAxglQ/edit#slide=id.g1010c00e91c_0_5 (edited)

Precious Plastic Whitepaper

Hello everyone, nice to meet you all

2

1

8:04 PM

and thanks for inviting me @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

1

And I should note that the above document was created before learning about the augmented bonding curve

8:05 PM

And I think the ABC absolutely suites a Precious Plastic token

yeah i think it totally would

8:07 PM

just quickly went through the presentation, it sounds nice

I'm thinking the ABC to enter our eco-system, and then instead of burning PPC with the marketplace fees, have the sellers pay the fees in it to the DAO treasury

and so essentially the plan is to make an incentive layer for plastic recycling hardware

Yeah

8:09 PM

Have an incentive layer to our existing open source hardware protocol

im currently thinking about the challenges that a community as big as this one may encounter

8:10 PM

have you considered getting in contact with the Ethereum foundation?

Nope. Would be cool. Haven't fully dived into reaching out to people

8:10 PM

trying to refine the idea a bit

IIRC they offer mentorships and even grants to these kind of projects

8:10 PM

and sounds like a really neat application of blockchain and crypto economies

8:11 PM

i see it now

just offering these ideas upfront while i get more familiar with everything

8:13 PM

they def. would be interested and could put you guys in contact with relevant folks on the space

oh niceee

8:14 PM

that would be awesome

well dont take my word for that lol i havent been involved in that process but that's what i've heard

8:14 PM

and i don't see why wouldn't they be interested in a project as big as this one with such a positive impact

I definitely think they would

other stuff you may want to consider as well is dipping your toes a bit in other crypto initiatives that doesn't necessarily involve making a fundamental change on your structure like idk testing Gitcoin grants, Giveth, NFTs the same way you have patreon or something?

Yeah I definately thought about giveth

8:17 PM

I still don't really get it

I’m not too deep into giveth, wouldn’t know how to explain it properly

Which projects are you most interested in?

I contribute mostly to 1Hive, there we make governance and organizational tools

oh awesome! I've been looking a lot at 1Hive for our DAO

8:40 PM

it's interesting how these different dao platforms carve out slightly different features and tools. I'm not sure which one is best

Joseph

Also just brainstorming here, what if we minted 1000 copies of a new machine and sold them as nfts. We don't "open source" it. You have to buy one of those nfts to read them. People can buy and sell these of course.

I don’t generally like walled projects

yeah agree with that ^

8:41 PM

very against our philosophy at precious plastic

8:41 PM

trying to accessable as possible

in my opinion that's like the opposite of what we're trying to accomplish

1

Joseph

it's interesting how these different dao platforms carve out slightly different features and tools. I'm not sure which one is best

i guess it all will come down to the needs of your community

8:42 PM

and to the space maturing, we're so early... it's really hard to wrap your head around what could happen in just months

absolutely agree with that

8:43 PM

It's moving so fast I can't believe it

8:44 PM

I've been following the aragon DAO stuff for like 3-4 years

yeah, i'm happy though, it only proves that this is truly bringing value to the world

The whole time i was like ok cool but it's not real. And then I blinked and then now it's happening!!!

wouldn't be growing in value and importance so fast

I'm worried it might be a little bit early for our community. Our community is mostly designers and makers

8:45 PM

Some techy people , but not the main type of person

yeah maybe it is, but someone will have to make the move one day, as hard as it seems it's the only way we'll know which tools to make and such

8:47 PM

not saying that this is the time to take that risk though

that's true

i still think you probably want to look into crypto crowdfunding even if you don't end up setting up the DAO

I feel like it's worth it for us because our project can barely exist in a web2 world

it's just an extra source of revenue for you guys to keep doing this

we were built for web3

8:49 PM

it's very financially difficult for us to operate. The project doesn't quite fit into any of the right boxes for the old world - grants, donations, business models, etc

Joseph

we were built for web3

i actually think otherwise, web3 was built for this

8:52 PM

but yeah, mass adoption is the biggest challenge i guess

enti

i actually think otherwise, web3 was built for this

ya true

maybe there's space for some hybrid, where the ones who doesn't feel as comfortable doesn't have to

8:53 PM

but that's an extra thing to an already complex design

8:54 PM

how would you say you govern the project right now?

We are centralized

8:54 PM

small group of us

8:56 PM

And it's only recently (last 2 years) that we've even had a team. Mostly it's been one guys project (Dave who's in here) hehe. (edited)

woah, that's insane

8:58 PM

thought was more people involved or something

The scale is truly insane given the amount of resources that have gone into this project

8:58 PM

Ok well we did have a huge development year where over 100 people contributed

8:58 PM

we had 300,000 euros to do that

8:59 PM

but everyone volunteered and did it for free

9:00 PM

Still though, I'm always amazed by our impact given the amount of resources. It's really due to a community driven approach and completely open source nature of it

1

yeah that's actually a matter i've been pretty interested in, it amazes me the value people on its own bring to the table

9:05 PM

i'm actually looking for PP members around my area and see if i can get in touch with them, this is so nice

2

where are you living

santo domingo, dominican republic

oh cool

9:06 PM

https://community.preciousplastic.com/map

Precious Plastic Community

A series of tools for the Precious Plastic community to collaborate around the world. Connect, share and meet each other to tackle plastic waste.

9:06 PM

i see a few orgs there

9:06 PM

https://community.preciousplastic.com/u/diego-verdaguer

Precious Plastic Community

A series of tools for the Precious Plastic community to collaborate around the world. Connect, share and meet each other to tackle plastic waste.

btw (im just throwing a bunch of ideas hehe) i'm not sure if you have like community activities or how you deal with that but have you thought about potentially educating on crypto topics to contributors? i'd happily volunteer to that and im sure a lot of folks on other daos would as well

what do you mean educating on crypto topics?

can potentially serve to help contributors find more ways to support themselves as well as sensing how far (or close) away is the community from accepting or actually using it

ya could be

Joseph

what do you mean educating on crypto topics?

idk like a workshop, calls, any kind of resource

I think another really interesting thing for us would be to design our token/dao in a way that doesn't require very much knowledge about crypto

9:11 PM

One reason Precious Plastic is successful is because we made plastic recycling really really accessable

9:11 PM

I think we could do the same with our DAO

that's fair, any ideas or examples of how could that be achieved? (edited)

designing the digital tools in a similar way to how we design our machines. Simple

9:13 PM

And having really good documentation

hmm im worried about the inherit complexities of crypto

9:14 PM

security, fiat - crypto access, etc

yes true there are limitations there

9:15 PM

but I think we can make some strides

enti

im currently thinking about the challenges that a community as big as this one may encounter

what you thinking here?

The cool part would be bridging the gap between crypto to an un-related community (plastic recycling)

Mattia

what you thinking here?

probably transitioning and being able to manage the scale

9:18 PM

e.g. ethereum is a pretty big community but it's all tech and internet machines

9:18 PM

what does crypto mean for a product that doesn't necessarily involve the internet?

Joseph

The cool part would be bridging the gap between crypto to an un-related community (plastic recycling)

thinking about it, you'd probably get HUGE exposure from using blockchain and probably a lot of crpyto users get involved and want to give it a try

YESS

Joseph

And it's only recently (last 2 years) that we've even had a team. Mostly it's been one guys project (Dave who's in here) hehe. (edited)

thanks joseph ❤️

i knew you were going to come in here and say that

1

there's some tradeoffs of course, this is probably going to disenfranchise less techy people

9:21 PM

oh well nvm

9:21 PM

they don't have to be disenfranchised

9:22 PM

for them this would actually work the same way it always had

trying to simplify the story @Mattia

(edited)

but with the others network effects should increment exponentially

yes definately

9:24 PM

Precious Plastic is a real world use case for blockchain in the material world

9:24 PM

Solving a social environmental problem

9:24 PM

There will be people ALL OVER it

enti

probably transitioning and being able to manage the scale

yes onboarding would be huge

9:25 PM

But we have a history of making complex geeky info into bite size dumb proof material for everyone

1

9:25 PM

I think, once we get it, we could translate to the average joe

i'm really excited right now lol this is really cool

welcome to the plastic recycling cult @enti

1

2

ty

So @enti you have some connects in the crypto world?

i wouldn't say im a big player by any means but i know who to ask questions (edited)

9:30 PM

most 1Hive seeds' are ex-Aragon and we also have contributors with great experience and track in a lot of cool projects

9:31 PM

those are probably my most direct connections, but then everyone is always happy to help

Cooool

Let's get to Ethereum Foundation

1

they'd be good mentors

9:44 PM

and no one has more connections than them haha

https://esp.ethereum.foundation/en/guide/

Guide

A guide to everything ESP: what we do, expectations for supported projects, how we process inquiries and grant applications, and more.

1

10:34 PM

That’s the program you guys probably want to look at

enti

IIRC they offer mentorships and even grants to these kind of projects

Do you mean grants to fund the "DAOfication/exit to community" of PP? (edited)

Joseph

I still don't really get it

It is basically a crypto crowdfunding platform for "good causes" (donations with fiat coming soon too). They have recently launched their token GIV and a number of mechanism around it. They call it all the GIVeconomy. They use tools developed by 1Hive

I am excited about Gurves (which is in their roadmap): helping charities become DAOs with their microeconomies: https://twitter.com/Givethio/status/1491051233259364352?s=20&t=zkjVEvGL7QLqSqhEbBBrHw We have a couple of projects there, ready to add PP

(edited)

Giveth (@Givethio)

Our mission is to reward & empower those who give.

Let's transform donors into impact investors & nonprofits into DAOs w/ their own microeconomies #Gurves

It's a "slippery slope" that will change charitable giving & #publicgoods funding forever.

https://t.co/k3iTpFX1zg https://t.co/c9XJHCBk2g

btw super exciting to see that other cool communities such as Open Collective are also looking at the ABC and CS for their "exit to community": https://rohitmalekar.medium.com/open-collective-as-a-decentralized-global-public-good-5b458b1ae66b

Open Collective As a Decentralized Global Public Good

Exit to Community with Curve Bonded Crowdfunding

These (https://miro.com/welcomeonboard/M0hDMExpMTQ1dUFMWjh3NWt1TU1LMHFYSHRXc2hrUkF0N0cyVWZHWkxUWGRhMFlCazduTDRwejVhMmRyRFZadXwzMDc0NDU3MzQ1Nzg2ODkyMTYx?invite_link_id=17920072182) are templates we can work on from the Ecosystem Value Flows course from Token Engineering (https://tokenengineeringcommunity.github.io/website/docs/academy-tmg1-ecosystem/). I´ll start working on them this week, we can take a look asynchronously or meet some time if you wish. (edited)

Sign up | Miro | Online Whiteboard for Visual Collaboration

Scalable, secure, cross-device and enterprise-ready team collaboration whiteboard for distributed teams. Join 30M+ users from around the world

7:45 AM

As this slide explains there is a conceptual design phase that comes before any CAD work. That´s what the templates help us map

7:46 AM

btw is any of you a Trusted Seeds of CS? https://medium.com/giveth/the-trusted-seed-of-the-commons-stack-5af6fb04cd30

ahahah

12:14 PM

should we bring those guys from Precious Plastic Crypto server onboard?

that is something to keep in mind though, most people think of all of this through that lens. So needs to be fleshed out and worked through so that we dont have that impact

Most arguments are usually because of environmental impact of blockchains, ideally you would use a Proof of Stake like Gnosis

12:29 PM

https://offsetra.com/profile/gnosischain

Gnosis Chain is carbon neutral with Offsetra

An energy efficient, carbon negative, Ethereum-compatible blockchain.

12:30 PM

They’re currently offsetting 10x of the chain emissions

12:32 PM

Besides that the other thing to be worried about is people not understanding the difference between Ponzi schemes and token economies

3

How should we approach this ? https://discord.gg/pwUKT2S3

1:20 PM

Invite them here or migrate there?

Mattia

ahahah

I totally get this sentiment....but imo it's due to ignorance about the space. BUT definitely something we would have to overcome

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

These (https://miro.com/welcomeonboard/M0hDMExpMTQ1dUFMWjh3NWt1TU1LMHFYSHRXc2hrUkF0N0cyVWZHWkxUWGRhMFlCazduTDRwejVhMmRyRFZadXwzMDc0NDU3MzQ1Nzg2ODkyMTYx?invite_link_id=17920072182) are templates we can work on from the Ecosystem Value Flows course from Token Engineering (https://tokenengineeringcommunity.github.io/website/docs/academy-tmg1-ecosystem/). I´ll start working on them this week, we can take a look asynchronously or meet some time if you wish. (edited)

Really love these tools. Super useful

1

Joseph

Invite them here or migrate there?

Invite them over(? Don’t see the need for two servers if we’re chasing the same

1

Joseph

I totally get this sentiment....but imo it's due to ignorance about the space. BUT definitely something we would have to overcome

Yeah some folks are inevitably going to feel some kind of way about this

Happening tmrw https://discord.com/events/776352358832930816/940637348859891742

Joseph

Invite them here or migrate there?

Do you know any of them?

No not really

1

I think something that's important about this PPC initiative is that we have a goal that is not about blockchain/crypto first. To me it's:

Trying to build the world's largest plastic recycling cooperative to tackle the plastic waste problem. The tech behind it is just doing the work of aligning incentives and coordination

2

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Do you know any of them?

Also the guy who started it is DM'ing me a lot so I kinda want to keep him over there

Seems very not aligned with what you are trying to do over there, so I’d say keep them there haha

I tried to create a little summary video of the idea. This is just the first draft. The idea would be to have a video to explain the concept and get more people into this group. LMK what you think https://www.loom.com/share/a4885baa036b41f78e0e352497d0c977

2

1

Really good article with tons of inspiration for Precious DAO

@Joseph I think you'll love this https://forefront.mirror.xyz/hFDYc12LjDapGPrIdNT6AGYbrFYZIgxSwhPXheBwl3s (edited)

Permissionless Brands

Chu and Fancy are part of the core team at Protein Community, these thoughts are their own and don’t represent the views of the full Community. We’d like to say thank you to Other Internet and their article on Headless Brands, which was integral to our thinking.

3:22 PM

Glad he called it PPT and not PPC

Joseph

I tried to create a little summary video of the idea. This is just the first draft. The idea would be to have a video to explain the concept and get more people into this group. LMK what you think https://www.loom.com/share/a4885baa036b41f78e0e352497d0c977

What did you guys think of framing the dao as a decentralized recycling cooperative? I think it would be smart not to be Blockchain / crypto first in terms of communication. Like that is just a technology that is enabling us to achieve something else

Mattia

Really good article with tons of inspiration for Precious DAO

@Joseph I think you'll love this https://forefront.mirror.xyz/hFDYc12LjDapGPrIdNT6AGYbrFYZIgxSwhPXheBwl3s (edited)

Super good!!

@Joseph makes sense.. cooperative sounds a bit old-communist-dude from the 90s with all due respect.. a bit retro

is there a more contemporary term to frame it?

4:00 PM

Very much agree on shifting focus away from the tech (edited)

Mattia

@Joseph makes sense.. cooperative sounds a bit old-communist-dude from the 90s with all due respect.. a bit retro

is there a more contemporary term to frame it?

I do agree with that. It sounds a bit antiquated

4:01 PM

We could also use commons

4:01 PM

It's a very important word choice

1

Can't think of anything better as of now

4:04 PM

Collective?

I do like the imagery of 1950s communinist propaganda

Decentralised recycling collective

4:05 PM

@Joseph constructivism ❤

Collective Commons Cooperative Movement

But Precious Plastic historically stayed apolitical with its message

4:05 PM

At least directly

Ya I could see some imagery hinting there though. I keep thinking about people dressed up in the blue jumpsuits around the world in their workspaces. We could create some awesome pics / poster images

1

yes! iconic

It's so cool that literally anyone can be a part of the commons / cooperative . Both the people running the workspaces and people donating their plastic.

4:09 PM

Aligns everyone towards the same goal

goal(s)

4:10 PM

I think this channel should be renamed dao

1

I can only imagine the type of non financial help it will bring to workspaces as well. Like if I am a token holder in Thailand, I have an incentive to help BOPE succeed. Could drive customers to him or whatever

1

seems to be more about the underlying structure and decentralization than the token itself

Yeah definitely

I am very much thinking of joining Commons Stack trusted Seed. If we are going to do this, those guys would be a huge asset.

1

Joseph

I am very much thinking of joining Commons Stack trusted Seed. If we are going to do this, those guys would be a huge asset.

I am already a TS , come join!

7:13 PM

https://twitter.com/dazuck/status/1380157939433009159

Danny Zuckerman (is hiring) (@dazuck)

The most existential question in crypto: what will be the relationship between tokens and communities? At stake: can DAOs bring virtue back to scaled organization? Or will they accelerate the economics-only mentalities that have been corroding society? A way-too-long-

Retweets

194

Likes

829

Joseph

I am very much thinking of joining Commons Stack trusted Seed. If we are going to do this, those guys would be a huge asset.

@Joseph what is it?

Joseph

I tried to create a little summary video of the idea. This is just the first draft. The idea would be to have a video to explain the concept and get more people into this group. LMK what you think https://www.loom.com/share/a4885baa036b41f78e0e352497d0c977

Nice! The audience are token engineers/DAO contributors and the goal is that they understand what PP is and the problem we think tokenisation can solve, right?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Nice! The audience are token engineers/DAO contributors and the goal is that they understand what PP is and the problem we think tokenisation can solve, right?

Yes I'd say so!

1

Mattia

@Joseph what is it?

It's the sort of group behind Commons Stack, a protocol for launching daos/tokens around common goods (like PP)

noice

We would be the perfect use case for them. @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond did a learning course through them

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

I am already a TS , come join!

Do you think it's worth it?

is that a sort of seedclub, DAO accelerator sort of thing?

7:29 PM

What do we think we need to bring this to life?

Someone funding it (development work, implement within cp + bazar)
Someone guiding us through the whole financial and legal side of things

7:29 PM

-???

Someone guiding us through the technical aspect (That's where I'm thinking Commons Stack people)

Mattia

is that a sort of seedclub, DAO accelerator sort of thing?

sort of similar. Less professionalized than them I would say.

Joseph

I tried to create a little summary video of the idea. This is just the first draft. The idea would be to have a video to explain the concept and get more people into this group. LMK what you think https://www.loom.com/share/a4885baa036b41f78e0e352497d0c977

@enti I would be curious to see if this is clear to you as someone who's new to Precious Plastic

Mattia

is that a sort of seedclub, DAO accelerator sort of thing?

i applied also to be a trusted seed, afaik they aren't precisely focused on accelerating projects but on making tech that can be used by them

1

8:23 PM

not like they're going to dedicate funds or any resource to a specific project, but learning from them and being around is more about expanding knowledge about commons and making connections with experts on those matters

1

Joseph

@enti I would be curious to see if this is clear to you as someone who's new to Precious Plastic

let me give it a check

enti

not like they're going to dedicate funds or any resource to a specific project, but learning from them and being around is more about expanding knowledge about commons and making connections with experts on those matters

which is really important anyways, a DAO token is just as valuable as the underlying community

1

enti

not like they're going to dedicate funds or any resource to a specific project, but learning from them and being around is more about expanding knowledge about commons and making connections with experts on those matters

yes absolutely. This is so valuable

Joseph

@enti I would be curious to see if this is clear to you as someone who's new to Precious Plastic

yeah i think it's a nice introduction to what you guys do and what you're looking for

Mattia

What do we think we need to bring this to life?

Someone funding it (development work, implement within cp + bazar)
Someone guiding us through the whole financial and legal side of things

guidance definitely, this is no easy project to bring to web3

8:44 PM

what's cool about all this is i haven't seen a project that's worth it not receiving funds, whether from orgs, grants, individuals, etc (edited)

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

https://twitter.com/dazuck/status/1380157939433009159

i'm really enjoying reading this, there's a lot of stuff to consider https://twitter.com/dazuck/status/1380157973658546182?s=20&t=NXjfHqvnJRiDpCPQzb4VHQ

Danny Zuckerman (is hiring) (@dazuck)

Tokens begin by giving communities incentive powers. Over time, might they turn all our groups economic? Will every interaction be only a chance to build wealth? It depends on whether tokens can be more than financial - can they represent or co-exist with other motivations?

9:01 PM

https://twitter.com/dazuck/status/1380160252621041665?s=20&t=NXjfHqvnJRiDpCPQzb4VHQ this i think is something that TEC has done better than 1Hive for example, governance is through their token but the common pool is in stablecoins - $TEC still has monetary value but it's not necessarily the economic vehicle that's used for expenses and any kind of payment

Danny Zuckerman (is hiring) (@dazuck)

1. Make community tokens look less like money. Non-fungibility, non-transferability, limited liquidity, penalties for norm violations could all work. The token can still hold value, but is less likely to attract value-dilutive speculators or be viewed as a purely economic asset

Likes

101

9:02 PM

they also have a non-transferrable reputation token that gives you access to stuff where they consider you need to have a record of contributions to the community, like ABC hatches

enti

i'm really enjoying reading this, there's a lot of stuff to consider https://twitter.com/dazuck/status/1380157973658546182?s=20&t=NXjfHqvnJRiDpCPQzb4VHQ

very good thread

enti

https://twitter.com/dazuck/status/1380160252621041665?s=20&t=NXjfHqvnJRiDpCPQzb4VHQ this i think is something that TEC has done better than 1Hive for example, governance is through their token but the common pool is in stablecoins - $TEC still has monetary value but it's not necessarily the economic vehicle that's used for expenses and any kind of payment

Yeah having the pool in stablecoins would be ideal. I assume under an ABC scenario that would be the case right?

Joseph

Yeah having the pool in stablecoins would be ideal. I assume under an ABC scenario that would be the case right?

it's not the only way to do it but yeah

9:08 PM

what i'm still having a hard time thinking about is the utility of the pp token... mostly we talk about how can it be used as a way to incentive participants and stop depending on grands and such but how?

9:08 PM

beyond governance what would the pp token do?

9:08 PM

and what's exactly to govern?

enti

and what's exactly to govern?

How the treasury would be distributed

enti

what i'm still having a hard time thinking about is the utility of the pp token... mostly we talk about how can it be used as a way to incentive participants and stop depending on grands and such but how?

What I think is the most straight forward start is that sellers on the Bazar would pay their fees in PPC

9:09 PM

Right now they pay them in Fiat

9:10 PM

I see the Bazar as the central element to build utility into PPC because it already has an economic component

Joseph

What I think is the most straight forward start is that sellers on the Bazar would pay their fees in PPC

that would be burned and/or returned to the common pool right?

Yeah the burning idea was before finding out about the ABC

9:10 PM

but in an ABC scenario i think it would be paying the PPC into the common pool

9:11 PM

Later the DAO could decide to build other utilities for PPC (posting listings on the Bazar, putting your pin on the Precious Plastic map, etc)

Joseph

but in an ABC scenario i think it would be paying the PPC into the common pool

having the sellers pay their fees in PPC and send it directly to the common pool

9:13 PM

Do you think that would work ?

yeah, these are just things to have in mind, pp doesn't even need to be a token-first community

9:15 PM

the TEC has been working for more than a year i think and they distributed the token recently

9:15 PM

same as ENS to name a few

yeah totally

are any of you contributors or involved to some extent in the space?

in web3?

yeah

no

9:20 PM

we are a maker/designer/engineering community

9:20 PM

That's the challenge

9:21 PM

BUT i would say our community's values are very aligned, so many in the community is aware of the space (edited)

Joseph

That's the challenge

a complete roller coaster but really fun and worth it hehe

9:25 PM

I had just a bit of experience using crypto and when I joined 1Hive after reading the wiki and everything it was just too much to take in I just kinda gave up

9:25 PM

after like two weeks I suddenly internalised everything and that’s where I started really contributing

And how are you contributing?

9:25 PM

coding?

Joseph

BUT i would say our community's values are very aligned, so many in the community is aware of the space (edited)

yeah and seems like you've read quite a bit about all of this so you should be fine

Also Dave the founder of Precious Plastic is a bit into crypto

Joseph

And how are you contributing?

community (support channels, writing documentation, supporting governance processes, community discussions, etc.)

nice!

9:27 PM

Where does most of the 1hive community hangout?

9:28 PM

the forum?

discord for daily chatting and the forum for more high level discussions

9:30 PM

we are going through some hard times i must admit though

Why's that?

9:31 PM

internal fighting?

1Hive is sort of built on the pure premise of experimentation and i guess we took too much risks

9:32 PM

we're suffering from the tyranny of structureless

9:33 PM

or at least that's how i see it

ahh yes

9:33 PM

Gotta have some structure and leadership imo

not to mention we're transitioning focus

9:34 PM

Honeyswap (a uniswap fork, not sure if you know about it) was sort of our main product, but was born out of necessity, not because that was the goal

9:35 PM

I wasn't on 1Hive when that happened but afaik when they arrived to xDai (now Gnosis Chain) there was no DeFi infrastructure so they did it themselves

9:35 PM

Now thanks to the tyranny of structureless we're a bit short of human resources to maintain products and it's either Honeyswap or Gardens right now

ahh i see

9:36 PM

Do you get paid for your contributions there?

yeah

9:36 PM

each working group makes proposals to get funding

9:37 PM

but we also have SourceCred instance to compensate smaller contributions

Nice! Sourcecred is so cool

9:37 PM

is the tech of sourcecred good enough to actually use?

yeah!

in fact we're the biggest instance they have

9:38 PM

it has been really nice to see that in action, in fact that's honestly what got me into the 1Hive loop in the first place

Do the fees from honeyswap help fund the DAO?

Joseph

is the tech of sourcecred good enough to actually use?

yup i think so, we had to build some tools to be able to handle the size of our instance like a discord bot to automate onboarding and some other stuff but yeah

Joseph

Do the fees from honeyswap help fund the DAO?

yeah, initially all of the protocol fee (0.05%) was returned to the common pool

9:40 PM

now that protocol fee is split between $HNY (our token) and xComb, which is a farming token to incentivise people adding liquidity

hm! interesting

9:41 PM

so complex these ecosystems

9:42 PM

I'm pretty excited by the Gnosis chain

yeah me too

seems like a lot of cool projects happening there

really bullish on it

9:43 PM

Gnosis has always provided excellent tooling for the ecosystem

Yes! Absolutely

9:44 PM

Gnosis safe etc

9:44 PM

It's interesting because they started as a prediction market protocol I'm pretty sure

yup

I had some of their token like 4 years ago

9:44 PM

Oh course I sold it back then like a dummy

and now they have a chain lol crazy

So cool how these projects can evolve

Joseph

Oh course I sold it back then like a dummy

same

had some ETH

9:46 PM

sold pretty much everything after the 2017 crash

yeah those were wild times

9:46 PM

Did 1hive build gardens so they could have a place to put their own DAO?

i'm not entirely sure on the history/reason but the seeds as ex-Aragon they are all pretty much into governance related stuff

I see

and they were excited about the premise of conviction voting so they did it

9:48 PM

afaik we're the first ones to use CV

Ahh it's really built to implement conviction voting?

which is part of the commons stack

9:48 PM

Nice i need to read up on CV more

9:49 PM

I'm pretty into quadratic voting

essentially the communities building the 4 pillars of the commons are Giveth, TEC, Commons and 1Hive

i have my eyes on all of them

9:50 PM

I want IN!!!!

9:50 PM

(for Precious Plastic)

9:50 PM

I just feel like we can be a really cool use case for all of those projects

1

Joseph

I'm pretty into quadratic voting

i'm pretty sure that's in the Gardens roadmap

9:51 PM

implementing quadratic conviction voting

9:52 PM

but i think it's a bit tricky, you need more tooling to implement that (successfully)

makes sense

Joseph

Nice i need to read up on CV more

i think it's pretty clever of a system, but a bit hard to grasp as a user

yeah tbh I think that's a big downside

it's not yes/no anymore

it

there's no "no" in CV

It's very interesting, but if the users don't understand it fairly easily, that worries me

9:53 PM

We take a very user centric approach. We try to make everything as simple as possible

9:54 PM

Does it seem like CV works well in 1hive?

hmm

9:54 PM

that's an interesting question acutally

9:55 PM

given the problems that we have encounter is it because of CV or for other reasons? could 1Hive be the same with other voting systems?

9:55 PM

that's not easy to answer at all

yeah probably hard to pin down the exact problem in such a complex system

i think yeah(? but CV is also the reason of our existence so maybe we're biased towards it

9:56 PM

I have been trying to figure out how much money TEC raised

9:56 PM

crazy! 1 million!

though all things considered, there's not a lot of communities that have been able to make everything we've done

9:57 PM

there was no ABC hatch or VC or investment rounds

How did 1hive raise money then?

we've developed a pretty cool governance app, a swap app, and a lending platform which has its own token (Agave)

ahhh so they you created apps that then created it's own funding?

9:59 PM

through fees?

Joseph

How did 1hive raise money then?

adding value to the ecosystem, i guess is a bit of luck that we had a lot of pretty good and experienced contributors that added a lot on the process

10:01 PM

plus some important actors buying the token in decent quantities, which i guess count as an investment towards 1Hive but it's not a formal investment or seed investment etc.

Joseph

through fees?

the only product there that generates explicit revenue is Honeyswap and it's not in the amounts needed to pay for all expenses

ahh got it. So you're still running off sort of ICO funds?

Gardens creates demand for the token as it's needed to stake at Celeste for example but not like there's a return to the common pool

Joseph

ahh got it. So you're still running off sort of ICO funds?

that's what i'm saying, there wasn't a ICO for the token

10:04 PM

and to some point that's one of the issues we are trying to deal with now, all expenses are paid in HNY which sets a decent bit of selling pressure on the token

Joseph

crazy! 1 million!

i think it's more? if i understand correctly the funds received from the ABC are split between a common pool and a reserve pool

enti

i think it's more? if i understand correctly the funds received from the ABC are split between a common pool and a reserve pool

yeah you're right it should be. i think the 1 million is just the common pool

they raised a total of 1,571,223.57 xDai

10:16 PM

https://hatch.tecommons.org/

Token Engineering Commons Hatch

Join the TEC and become part of the movement to advance Token Engineering for the benefit of societies around the globe.

oh nice!

10:16 PM

haven't seen that page

10:17 PM

Is it currently in the "public" phase of the ABC then?

doesn't look like, i don't see an option to hatch, just to ragequit

Do you guys think crowfunding could be a funding mechanism for ppDAO? Assuming we wouldn't need hips of $$$ we could be tapping into crypto enthusiasts that see the potentials in Precious Plastic. We would be venturing outside of our own community. We could say we need xxx eth to get to stated goal. We will spend xxx eth to do this, this and this which will get us to stated goal. Supporters will get xxx PPC per eth donated. Supporters would be supporting to: 1) make gains hoping PPC price would 100x in x yrs 2) support a project that could potentially real-life application of the whole crypto/dao world.

1

Yes definately. Could use something like Mirror, but the thing about it is that that's a one time crowdfund. Using the augmented bonding curve, we have continuous crowdfunding

Joseph

Yes definately. Could use something like Mirror, but the thing about it is that that's a one time crowdfund. Using the augmented bonding curve, we have continuous crowdfunding

I mean to to get the point where we can implement ABC, DAO and tokens (edited)

Mattia

I mean to to get the point where we can implement ABC, DAO and tokens (edited)

I think this is probably the way to go

12:13 PM

And for example even with the ABC TEC has a Gitcoin Grant open for donations

12:15 PM

Mirror/Gitcoin/Giveth can be a nice way to receive funding at the time you’re building a crypto community around to then finally tokenize it

12:15 PM

Mirror has the benefit that you can do way more with it like blogging about PP and such

enti

Mirror/Gitcoin/Giveth can be a nice way to receive funding at the time you’re building a crypto community around to then finally tokenize it

totally agree with this

enti

Mirror/Gitcoin/Giveth can be a nice way to receive funding at the time you’re building a crypto community around to then finally tokenize it

100%. Also, I am currently researching grants from different web3 orgs. It´s another way to go

Mattia

What do we think we need to bring this to life?

Someone funding it (development work, implement within cp + bazar)
Someone guiding us through the whole financial and legal side of things

Can we capture these somewhere? Do you already use any shared Drive or alike?

Mattia

@Joseph what is it?

https://medium.com/commonsstack/the-trusted-seed-of-the-commons-stack-13d7e37f2de

The Trusted Seed of the Commons Stack

Establishing Healthy Initialization Conditions for DAO Ecosystems

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Can we capture these somewhere? Do you already use any shared Drive or alike?

Not for the DAO afaiac (just made this acronym up

) @Joseph? (edited)

@Mattia what do you think.....One Army Public?

1

We can use this as our sort of Wiki https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sfr6PofZCAVHg28Q1YXpMekwz_pwAFoOhWnPEbqD5Fs/edit

What we need

Key Assets Funding Accelerator Seedclub Legal assistance Technical / Tokenomics assistance Commons Stack

2

1

Joseph

Do you think it's worth it?

It is a way to get more involved in the community. They can sponsor the membership fee

enti

beyond governance what would the pp token do?

PP has a number of "spaces" (social media, bazar, how tos, etc.) where I believe PPC could have a use, e.g. for curation purposes. It is definitely something to think about. Feel free to add any idea on slide 16: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pqFrmHhgRB0Ju4K1w7SSsTvm9i8cCmJq7KPjXmAxglQ/edit#slide=id.g1010c00e91c_0_5

Precious Plastic Whitepaper Draft

Precious Plastic Whitepaper *This is 100% just a draft with some ideas :) Nothing serious

Joseph

ahh got it. So you're still running off sort of ICO funds?

There was a faucet where anyone could get a bit of HNY every second day. I think that brought some people´s attention and some of then became contributors.

Joseph

Is it currently in the "public" phase of the ABC then?

yes, it is still up and running: https://convert.tecommons.org/

TEC's Augmented Bonding Curve

have a call with these guys on thurs https://www.empower.eco/

empower

Empower AS | The Future of Plastic is Circular

Empower generates value out of plastic waste – enabling collectors, recyclers, brands and consumers to make a real impact on the environment.

1

Joseph

have a call with these guys on thurs https://www.empower.eco/

you guys have any ideas how we could collab with them?

Joseph

you guys have any ideas how we could collab with them?

we are using their platform in our workshop. It would be great if more and more PP workshops use it. I hope the market for plastic credits becomes bigger soon

DiatomDAO (https://discord.gg/bmvXmbzw) + empower (their credits are not onchain afaik) is a great combo. In terms of collab for PP DAO, I guess we still have to think about it and develop a nice way where e.g. PPC has some utility (edited)

Holy shit big discord

woah they raised $8M in NFT and $3M in token presale, there's for sure a couple of stuff that we can learn from them

6:58 PM

and also proves that there's a big opportunity for these projects

@enti absolutely. 8 million and I'm still looking at the project like what is this.....

maybe there's a way to even receive funds as part of the step 02 of their process

7:38 PM

7:39 PM

not sure though if this is PRC compliant

7:39 PM

or perhaps individuals within PP can take advantage of something like that

Looks like they use a Bonding curve?

idk, probably

7:41 PM

i'm looking for a doc or something stating their tokenomics

7:42 PM

though they're using olympus pro to offer the bonds

7:42 PM

i don't think they have a bonding curve in the token itself

7:43 PM

and now that i think about it there a some risks or details that concern me about the project, like who verifies the plastic removal in step 3? someone could potentially mark stuff as verified and mint a bunch of PRC

7:45 PM

i get they're a new project but honestly raising 8M without clear documentation on the process (maybe i don't know where to look for it) feels weird

It is a fork of klima DAO for plastic credits. Empower is also creating those credits /PRC

im not sure how does klima dao work but i dont still get how they verify that kind of stuff without relying on a centralized org or something

pretty sure klima dao is a bonding curve

enti

and now that i think about it there a some risks or details that concern me about the project, like who verifies the plastic removal in step 3? someone could potentially mark stuff as verified and mint a bunch of PRC

yes. And they still raised 8 million haha

enti

im not sure how does klima dao work but i dont still get how they verify that kind of stuff without relying on a centralized org or something

KlimaDAO is a fork of OHM, but their token is backed by carbon credits BCT from toucan protocol, which In turn come from offchain credits (verra I think). In empower the verification of plastic credits is indeed centralized. I don’t know about PRC

Joseph

pretty sure klima dao is a bonding curve

How?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

How?

not sure exactly

8:01 PM

it confuses me

1

I dont fully get how OHM works yet either...

you offer tokens at discount and receive stablecoins or other stuff

8:06 PM

similar to the ABC

8:07 PM

but (i think) usually one refers to tokens having bonding curves when they're implemented in the tokenomics of the token itself

8:07 PM

e.g. TEC emissions depend on the ABC

8:07 PM

whereas you can have a token with limited supply and offer bonds using an app like olympus pro

1

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

KlimaDAO is a fork of OHM, but their token is backed by carbon credits BCT from toucan protocol, which In turn come from offchain credits (verra I think). In empower the verification of plastic credits is indeed centralized. I don’t know about PRC

i don't like that you have to trust someone buying things offchain for a dao but i guess that's me being too skeptic

8:09 PM

a whole decentralized community with a centralized operation that can serve their only purpose

enti

you offer tokens at discount and receive stablecoins or other stuff

what do user give to get OHM?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

what do user give to get OHM?

depends on whatever the OHM DAO wants in their treasury (edited)

8:12 PM

it honestly can be whatever, NFTs, LP tokens, stablecoins, tokens from other communities, etc.

1

They are currently getting LP tokens, right? (edited)

i'm not sure, haven't checked

8:14 PM

they usually go after OHM-stablecoin LPs or stablecoins on their own

8:14 PM

or idk OHM-WETH OHM-WBTC

enti

i'm not sure, haven't checked

There is this innovation of the DAO holding its own LP, right?

enti

or idk OHM-WETH OHM-WBTC

yes. Exactly

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

There is this innovation of the DAO holding its own LP, right?

yeah, treasury building has become more and more important

8:16 PM

oftentimes projects spend big on farming programs which puts a lot of selling pressure and doesn't ensure liquidity for extended periods of time

1

8:16 PM

if a community can manage to own their liquidity they no longer have to worry about investors being able to buy or sell the tokens without too much slipagge

1

8:17 PM

1Hive now owns HNY-FOX and HNY-BRIGHT thanks to partnerships with communities

enti

if a community can manage to own their liquidity they no longer have to worry about investors being able to buy or sell the tokens without too much slipagge

Is that something we could do? Although with the ABC that is no longer necessary, right?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Is that something we could do? Although with the ABC that is no longer necessary, right?

even with the ABC you don't solve liquidity problems

8:20 PM

unless you want to receive LPs in the hatch, which i don't think is ideal

enti

even with the ABC you don't solve liquidity problems

Why not? There is always liquidity, right?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Why not? There is always liquidity, right?

TEC received xdai and in theory you can just ragequit, burn your TEC and receive xdai

8:23 PM

but most likely you'll swap TEC on e.g. Honeyswap, which doesn't have any TEC liquidity unless you add it up

enti

TEC received xdai and in theory you can just ragequit, burn your TEC and receive xdai

exactly. This makes TEC liquid, right? You burn it and get xdai from the reserve

yeah, i guess so but it also reduces the amount of reserves available to the community

8:25 PM

you likely want to keep the common pool with much funds as possible and get people to trade TEC separately

8:25 PM

plus the ABC is likely to be turned off at some point

8:26 PM

at least for the minting

enti

you likely want to keep the common pool with much funds as possible and get people to trade TEC separately

the reserve pool and the comon pool are different pools!

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

the reserve pool and the comon pool are different pools!

when you ragequit you don't receive funds back from both?

enti

plus the ABC is likely to be turned off at some point

yes. I don´t know how they are solving this

enti

when you ragequit you don't receive funds back from both?

No, afaik. In fact there is an exit tribute: when you burn TEC you fund the common pool

fair

8:30 PM

anyways idk why wouldn't you want to make the token liquid on various AMM

1

enti

when you ragequit you don't receive funds back from both?

I think they do not call it ragequit anymore. Ragequit was only during the hatch

enti

anyways idk why wouldn't you want to make the token liquid on various AMM

aaa I think they bought early into the ABC and might use some of that TEC for secondary AMM: https://forum.tecommons.org/t/the-initial-buy-in/670

The Initial Buy-In

Proposal Title The Initial Buy-in Proposal Information Signal your favour for this proposal on Snapshot We want to be the first buyers on our Augmented Bonding Curve (ABC)! This proposal aims to acquire TEC tokens at the moment of initialization of the ABC in order to allow the TEC to acquire tokens at the lowest possible price for key allo...

https://twitter.com/givethio/status/1493242526202884096?s=21

Giveth (@Givethio)

In case you missed it: @thegrifft talks with @CamiRusso of @DefiantNews about replacing monopolistic government services with competing #RegenEconomies

Full video: https://t.co/k3iTpFX1zg https://t.co/WYiOUBd1Uf

enti

you likely want to keep the common pool with much funds as possible and get people to trade TEC separately

Go One Army! Anything worth DAOing is worth DAOing right!

enti

anyways idk why wouldn't you want to make the token liquid on various AMM

What I'm confused about with the ABC is if the token is additionally tradable through AMMs. @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond do you know?

Joseph

What I'm confused about with the ABC is if the token is additionally tradable through AMMs. @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond do you know?

why wouldn’t it be?

12:36 PM

the ABC mints a token and you decide if you want to put liquidity into an AMM

1

hmmm true

enti

plus the ABC is likely to be turned off at some point

why do you think this?

Joseph

why do you think this?

if the community manages to make enough revenue to sustain itself in other ways they can turn off the ABC so the token stops inflating

12:44 PM

and probably there's more reasons, i just heard that on a TEC call the other day

enti

https://twitter.com/givethio/status/1493242526202884096?s=21

pretty much sums it up

enti

and probably there's more reasons, i just heard that on a TEC call the other day

from what I understand the ABC can reduce the volatility of the token and ensures liquidity. When there is enough liquidity on secondary markets and an economy is created around the token you may want to let it "fly free"

That's pretty interesting. Never thought of shutting off the ABC. Makes sense though But indeed I think the liquidity mechanism is such an important thing for a project like ours. I would assume quite low liquidity. (edited)

1

Hey guys I have been adding a few post-its on the Miro board (https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOPvsqZ4=/) about PP´s purpose. Would be great to get your input, specially from @deleted-role

PP DAO

Do you guys know if these statements below correct? When someone buys TEC from the TEC commons website - they are interacting with the ABC smart contract, so new TEC is being minted. When someone buys TEC on Honeyswap, they are buying already minted tokens from the ABC

Joseph

Do you guys know if these statements below correct? When someone buys TEC from the TEC commons website - they are interacting with the ABC smart contract, so new TEC is being minted. When someone buys TEC on Honeyswap, they are buying already minted tokens from the ABC

seems accurate

1

I wonder if the price of TEC in the secondary market would always be higher or lower than the ABC

i reckon on the long run they'll stay pretty much tied due to arbitrage

6:38 PM

and that's why at some point you may want to turn the abc off

enti

i reckon on the long run they'll stay pretty much tied due to arbitrage

exactly. That´s why the ABC is a kind of buffer that reduces volatility. If e.g. the price in secondary markets goes up, bots will buy TEC in the ABC and sell it in the secondary markets, thus reducing its price.

2

11:22 PM

Btw Giveth´s roadmap includes supporting non-profits become DAOs

https://anchor.fm/edbong/episodes/Griff-Green-TheDAO--GiveETH--CommonStack-e1e8cs4 We will always have the option of raising funds on Giveth and wait for that to happen

(edited)

Griff Green (TheDAO, Giveth, Commons Stack) by DAO Talks

Former community manager of TheDao, co-founder at Giveth.io and CommonsStack. He is a crypto evangelist that holds the first ever master's degree on blockchain. Passionate about building software to support the growth of decentralized communities especially when they are non-profit causes. Talking about the early days of Crypto, TheDAO hack, goi...

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Btw Giveth´s roadmap includes supporting non-profits become DAOs

https://anchor.fm/edbong/episodes/Griff-Green-TheDAO--GiveETH--CommonStack-e1e8cs4 We will always have the option of raising funds on Giveth and wait for that to happen

(edited)

that'll probably be a nice way to start

From 41:00 this gets soooo good https://youtu.be/d_MCluambbI

The Defiant

Let's replace monopolistic government services with competing publi...

2:36 AM

Answers some of your questions about Giveth and the Commons Stack @Joseph

enti

Answers some of your questions about Giveth and the Commons Stack @Joseph

Listened to it yesterday. Super good

Would reccomend anyone here to start listening at 41:24 to hear what could be possible https://youtu.be/d_MCluambbI?t=2484

The Defiant

Let's replace monopolistic government services with competing publi...

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Btw Giveth´s roadmap includes supporting non-profits become DAOs

https://anchor.fm/edbong/episodes/Griff-Green-TheDAO--GiveETH--CommonStack-e1e8cs4 We will always have the option of raising funds on Giveth and wait for that to happen

(edited)

Do you know about Grassroot´s Economics work with Community currencies? This short docu is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFPrVvpraU In the podcast I shared, Griff explains how crazy it was that when the ethereum fork happened everyone won: ethereum "classic" and ethereum kept their value and thus, both the hackers and the white hackers had what they wanted. This (creating money out of nothing) is a somehow weird phenomenon. And from my little understanding it is related to our perception of what money is. There is this great article by Brett Scott where he explains the commodity and the credit theories of money: https://brettscott.substack.com/p/money-through-mowglis-eyes From my understanding, most of what we are discussing (and most of the crypto space) holds a commodity theory of money. Yesterday I thought that it would be great to include a bit of credit theory of money in this project (PP). Here a couple of blockchain projects with this credit-theory vision: https://trustlines.network/, https://resource.finance/

2

7:15 PM

Sorry for that

No need to take it too seriously.

Is any of you up for working on the miro board tomorrow https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOPvsqZ4=/ and discussing next steps? (edited)

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Sorry for that

No need to take it too seriously.

Is any of you up for working on the miro board tomorrow https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOPvsqZ4=/ and discussing next steps? (edited)

Thanks for all this useful info, need some time to process. The miro board seemed a little overwhelming. Didn't know where to start

Mattia

Thanks for all this useful info, need some time to process. The miro board seemed a little overwhelming. Didn't know where to start

We can start with the first canvas ("ecosystem´s purpose" on the top left corner).

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Do you know about Grassroot´s Economics work with Community currencies? This short docu is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFPrVvpraU In the podcast I shared, Griff explains how crazy it was that when the ethereum fork happened everyone won: ethereum "classic" and ethereum kept their value and thus, both the hackers and the white hackers had what they wanted. This (creating money out of nothing) is a somehow weird phenomenon. And from my little understanding it is related to our perception of what money is. There is this great article by Brett Scott where he explains the commodity and the credit theories of money: https://brettscott.substack.com/p/money-through-mowglis-eyes From my understanding, most of what we are discussing (and most of the crypto space) holds a commodity theory of money. Yesterday I thought that it would be great to include a bit of credit theory of money in this project (PP). Here a couple of blockchain projects with this credit-theory vision: https://trustlines.network/, https://resource.finance/

the local currency documentary is great!

1

I watched it as well, it was really good. Particularly the simulation on how not being able to loan keep the money fairly equally distributed.

10:41 AM

Apparently, there was another local money in Kenya, based on trash collection : "The settlement held a large trash disposal event, in which local youths were given five Eco-Pesa for each trash bag they filled (the trash was ultimately sent by truck or hand-cart to the nearest landfill). They spent this cash at local businesses, which could either use it to buy goods or services from other local sellers or exchange it for shillings. After three months with the Eco-Pesa, the monthly income of businesses in Kongowea had risen by 22%, and the settlement had rid itself of 20 tonnes of trash."

10:42 AM

https://ijccr.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/ijccr-2011-ruddick.pdf

@Yann JOINS THE GROUP

2

Had a meeting with https://www.empower.eco/ CEO yesterday. Super cool guy and they are very keen to work with us . They are building their own blockchain (using Cosmos SDK) to specifically host token projects around waste mgmt. They already have some good traction with their current plastic tracking products (16 employees). No next steps atm bc I said we are slowly getting our ideas together and they are still building their blockchain. (edited)

Bit of DAO inspiration

https://assangedao.org/

9:32 PM

https://www.citydao.io/

9:32 PM

https://www.vitadao.com/

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Shm50qymRicYcB3iN60CP?si=6INR8WVtShi1JXl7j-hbNQ&utm_source=copy-link

Vitalik Buterin - Green Pill #1

Listen to this episode from Bankless on Spotify. Vitalik Buterin is the founder of Ethereum and a researcher at the Ethereum Foundation. As the visionary behind the network, Vitalik's values are embodied within the ethos of Ethereum's community-centric nature. Exploring quadratic funding, pluralism, and sybil resistance, we dive into why Vitali...

11:32 PM

https://youtu.be/hDaZhBNpBHc

Bankless

Announcing the GREEN PILL Podcast | Kevin Owocki

I see I have a bit of catchup to do lol

3:22 AM

meanwhile i'd like to share this, https://youtu.be/ADSOVkujrI4

ETHDenver

The Biggest Web3 Opportunity That No One Is Talking About Griff Green

3:23 AM

I truly never realised the impact that projects like Giveth can have on the world, I'm speechless and really excited

1

3:23 AM

that's literally the reason I try my best to be useful and contribute to the space

enti

meanwhile i'd like to share this, https://youtu.be/ADSOVkujrI4

Precious Plastic = Public Good

Where we should be networking in Discord:

GITCOIN
Commons Stack
Token Engineering Commons
Giveth
Sourcecred

(edited)

2

7:10 PM

https://daohaus.mirror.xyz/SKzS-s85EeEICZHjXLkpwN1UueAZMrvgFbI2tB0zkMc

A Sneak Peak into DAOhaus v3

In 2019, DAOhaus was born out of a community building coordination tools for themselves. Originally called Pokemol, it was a simple user interface to manage membership, voting and proposals for Moloch DAOs. As more communities were drawn to Moloch DAOs and required a no-code way to summon new DAOs, we built the original DAOhaus app.

1

FYI guys, Tamara from the Commons Stack said they want to initialize another Common by the end of the year

1

2:46 PM

It’s going to be some sort of contest, she didn’t disclose the details but maybe PP can participate

ooooo sounds good @enti!

3:04 PM

Where were they discussing that?

Joseph

Where were they discussing that?

https://youtu.be/VGe-yPwhJ6w around 34:00

ETHDenver

Public Goods are Good - Panel with Griff Green, Eugene Leventhal, a...

3:14 PM

Even if PP doesn’t win it will surely be a nice way to get in the loop imo

yes I think it would be good to just get us on their radar

3:30 PM

I also thought about applying to the next seed club accelerator

3

Apparently the next round of applications for seed club goes live in late march

oh that'd be nice as well

4:47 PM

i've seen some cool projects doing well after sc

Its says they take 3% of tokens on their website though from the projects they incubate

Dunno how that would work with the ABC (edited)

maybe it's better if things dont get rushed and the project grows slowly or with more aligned parties

7:01 PM

not to say that seedclub is bad, but i don't thing they're too big in public goods/regen economy

Yeah I agree with that

I really enjoyed this podcast with many relevant points for Precious Plastic and how voting and tokens are not always the correct answer plus introducing (to me) the idea of on-chain reputation https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Al4d67LsOrX9NC49mNwXr?si=Wq8iACacT9S69ymBvFjMcw&utm_source=copy-link

The Story of Colony featuring Jack du Rose & Aron Fischer

Listen to this episode from Collectively Intelligent on Spotify. Two of our hosts, Jack du Rose (CEO & Founder of Colony) & Aron Fischer (recovering mathematician & co-author of the Colony whitepaper) sit down to discuss the story of Colony. What is Colony trying to solve? What have they learned along the way? Having worked on the challenges of ...

This is so true for our community

Mattia

This is so true for our community

may I ask why is that true for OA/PP?

1:06 PM

just curious

1:06 PM

and if you liked the idea of reputation based systems maybe you find this interesting as well https://future.a16z.com/reputation-based-systems/

Lauren Murrow

A Novel Framework for Reputation-Based Systems

Web3 projects should be designed around a two-token system—one signaling reputation, the other for liquidity—that would represent people's contributions.

@enti according to the above podcast there is a different btw token and reputation. A token is linear to a degree where early contributors probably have the biggest shares. That is hard to reverse I think. If your voting is solely based on tokens you'd end up with a fairly vertical system where either whales or original team members can have most decisional power. Reputation in the other hand (on colony at least) is sort of up to date as it is earned equally amongst people across sub-projects (dev, bazar, discord etc..) and additionally it decays meaning that if you haven't contributed in a while your reputation (and consequentially your voting weight) gets reduced in an effort to give power to the people currently active.

1:50 PM

Say someone started Precious Plastic in 2016 and we already had tokens. And say they'd be given 1000PPC coins at the time worth 100e. 6 years pass, token price goes up while they stop working on Precious Plastic. Assuming an important vote comes up they might have a advantage conpared to people starting in 2021 solely because of being an early adopter which doesn't necessarily make them more vested in the project in 2022 when people starting a pp project only get 10PPC as the price skyrocketed

1:51 PM

Probably probably an overly dumbized example, sorry

it's actually a great example

2:00 PM

and that is a great solution to a problem i don't think exists or that is solvable with that

2:00 PM

on a personal note i'm not convinced yet on reputation

2:02 PM

taking on your example, early contributors recibe more PPC tokens but they also take on more risk, thus providing more relative value (it's not the same to do idk accounting taking the risk than doing accounting when you know you're getting paid)

2:03 PM

it's unlikely that you just stop contributing or paying attention to a project you are invested in and imo there's some risk involved with those reputation systems because they remove utilities from the primary token

2:03 PM

i could technically sell all or most my PPC as long as i keep working because it's no longer the primary governance source for example

I think at Precious Plastic we'd be in a special position where we'd actually have utility beyond voting power or speculation. PPC could be used across our ecosystem to exchange products and machines, reward contributions and more.

yeah i guess it makes sense if you separate governance from the economy but then other question arises, aren't economic contributions valuable on its own?

2:07 PM

this is just me wondering stuff and circling through ideas but like if i don't have the time to contribute but i have the funds, shouldn't i be given voice on the decision making?

2:11 PM

I’m not sure about this but I think those systems can’t be considered commons or public goods but some sort of cooperative board

enti

this is just me wondering stuff and circling through ideas but like if i don't have the time to contribute but i have the funds, shouldn't i be given voice on the decision making?

Yes I believe these people should be given a voice.

2:33 PM

AS they are risking their capital

I think colony makes more sense for subDAOs where like if you set up a decentralized accountability department or something like that for PP it makes sense to be governed by reputation

2:36 PM

Or having some particular decisions or access to some delicate stuff based on reputation

yeah that makes sense

But I’m having a hard time thinking of a common governed by reputation

I think the whole reputation thing, while cool, adds a level of complexity that I'm wondering if it's worth it

Yeah, the idea is also relatively recent, I think it has yet to mature and prove itself

yes exactly

2:38 PM

I'm keen to be a first mover with the ABC

2:39 PM

but gotta mitigate how many things we are first mover on

btw I don’t know if I shared it already but this may interest some of you

2:47 PM

https://medium.com/tokenengineering/token-engineering-fundamentals-49b15b42fa5

Token Engineering Fundamentals

TE Academy builds the first comprehensive education & certification program in Token Engineering, free and available online…

enti

https://medium.com/tokenengineering/token-engineering-fundamentals-49b15b42fa5

definately keepin an eye on it

enti

But I’m having a hard time thinking of a common governed by reputation

I think it is intended as an additional layer to tokens

3:30 PM

One thing I am scared about is to impose an economy over a community historically known for its grassroot/reactionary/anarchist viewpoints

3:31 PM

I think we might gain to have a blend, avoiding to go from zero-financial-everything-free-we-love-the-world-no-need-no-money to a reality built upon the idea that everything is tokenizable

I didn't check what ABC means here, so the answer might be there. Your example is really interesting Mattia, but this is based on a huge speculation that would "skyrocket" the tokens, and transform the early adopter in whales. (I also need to listen the podcast, I kept it for tonight). But isn't there a way to avoid this unregulated speculation in the first time ? So the token can translate more thing than just money translation ? (edited)

Mattia

I think we might gain to have a blend, avoiding to go from zero-financial-everything-free-we-love-the-world-no-need-no-money to a reality built upon the idea that everything is tokenizable

interesting point, the PP community are the only ones that will decide that though you may be surprised, i've some anarchists that are really happy to be here

Yann

I didn't check what ABC means here, so the answer might be there. Your example is really interesting Mattia, but this is based on a huge speculation that would "skyrocket" the tokens, and transform the early adopter in whales. (I also need to listen the podcast, I kept it for tonight). But isn't there a way to avoid this unregulated speculation in the first time ? So the token can translate more thing than just money translation ? (edited)

i'm not sure i get why wouldn't you want (healthy and reasonable) speculation on the token

I think the line between healthy and reasonable versus the opposite is hard to define, and therefore not to cross ?

i think the conversation can be seen from another point of view

3:41 PM

instead of mitigating governance risks from the token structure, you can mitigate on the voting mechanisms

3:42 PM

quadratic voting, conviction voting, etc etc each one has different impacts on the decision making and some mitigate the "whale issue"

Yann

I think the line between healthy and reasonable versus the opposite is hard to define, and therefore not to cross ?

because yeah it's a hard line to cross but the economic incentive is a huge benefit from tokenized structures and afaik one of the main reasons PP is looking into that

I would say up until now we've worked and hoped on people goodwill to push the project further and share learnings. It kind of worked to an extent. If you're cynical you could say it didn't work so much. Or that a huge potential has been lost as only a tiny fraction of the value and knowledge generated worldwide has been shared with the broader community. Maybe 1%.

4:10 PM

I think a token and a financial incentive would be a great driver to achieve greater sharings/contribution to the Precious Plastic ecosystem (even though I am still kinda sad financial incentives are the only thing working in late stage capitalism). For me this is one of the main goals of the DAO\

Yann

I didn't check what ABC means here, so the answer might be there. Your example is really interesting Mattia, but this is based on a huge speculation that would "skyrocket" the tokens, and transform the early adopter in whales. (I also need to listen the podcast, I kept it for tonight). But isn't there a way to avoid this unregulated speculation in the first time ? So the token can translate more thing than just money translation ? (edited)

The abc regulates this problem

If I had to list goals in priority order would be:

Transition to a community owned project where the community owns Precious Plastic and has a vested interest for it to succeed (people owns/earn tokens > they want the project to grow/succeed )
Increased contributions (people earn tokens for the IP and work they put in)
Precious Plastic treasury growth > more freedom of action and growth

(edited)

1

Joseph

The abc regulates this problem

Do you think a financial incentive is all that is missing in Precious Plastic atm?

Mattia

Do you think a financial incentive is all that is missing in Precious Plastic atm?

That's not all that's missing , but I do think it's a major flaw in open source

4:17 PM

Because open source creates a tragedy of the commons

4:17 PM

Everyone had an incentive to take, and not give

4:18 PM

And it's not that it's a flaw in open source, it's just a natural reaction to it

well it doesn't necessarily has to be a "financial incentive" but more like value incentive

enti

well it doesn't necessarily has to be a "financial incentive" but more like value incentive

Yes absolutely

at the end of the day everything costs money but it doesn't mean it's money

Each participants value incentives need to be aligned with the benefit of the collectives. In current situation, it is not aligned

4:21 PM

@Yann I think you will find the ABC interesting. Basically instead of releasing a bunch of tokens into the free market, a smart contract regulates the minting of new tokens according to a function (can be linear, quadratic, sigmatic etc). The cost of the token invreases as more people buy in.

And the tokens could also be a money by itself ? Something you can buy or earn through your action, but that you can also use to exchange goods or services within the community.

4:22 PM

Do you have a "first entry" article to recommend about ABC ?

Yann

And the tokens could also be a money by itself ? Something you can buy or earn through your action, but that you can also use to exchange goods or services within the community.

that's the idea

And we can airdrop a first batch of tokens to past contributors ( all accounts on the community platform for example) so that the existing community is aligned from the beginning

Yann

And the tokens could also be a money by itself ? Something you can buy or earn through your action, but that you can also use to exchange goods or services within the community.

Yes you can sell the tokens for fiat currency or another crypto currency

So if that is the idea, huge speculation needs to be avoided, or you have more incentive to keep your token, instead of exchanging with them. (edited)

in the case of TEC for example, their token it's not the money

4:23 PM

which is one interesting thing about the ABC

@Yann https://commonsstack.org/abc

Augmented Bonding Curve

The ABC is a modified token bonding curve that generates continuous funding for open organizations that produce and maintain public goods.

Thank you, I'll put it aside for later.

usually token communities mint X amount and leave some for a treasury, if the token prize goes up so does the available funds on the treasury

4:24 PM

but with the ABC you no longer need to do that, the money collected is whats used on the treasury to pay for expenses and the token is just for governance or other purposes

4:25 PM

though the token still has some speculation around it, it becomes more valuable as the community proves to provide more value

4:26 PM

as people will want to be involved in the decision making process

4:27 PM

at the end of the day thats the endgoal, unless theres an actual revenue generating product the token reflects how much people wants to govern the common

Yeah @enti but it also because they want the utility of the token as well . Even better if that drives demand as well

From 3:40 brilliantly outlines my worries about tokenizing a community (food for thought) https://open.spotify.com/episode/6eQc7KAW2k36dgccht52vn?si=ASW7xO7tSg-rcBxmN5vopg&utm_source=copy-link

02. Danny Zuckerman: Tokenizing communities + web3 identity

Listen to this episode from On The Other Side on Spotify. Danny Zuckerman from 3Box Labs talks about web3 identity, how tokenizing communities could potentially leave us worse off, and what it means to own your own identity. Check out Danny's thread on tokenized communities Follow Danny on Twitter (@dazuck) Follow 3Box on Twitter (@3boxlabs) ...

1

Mattia

From 3:40 brilliantly outlines my worries about tokenizing a community (food for thought) https://open.spotify.com/episode/6eQc7KAW2k36dgccht52vn?si=ASW7xO7tSg-rcBxmN5vopg&utm_source=copy-link

I agree with the criticism that money isn't the only incentive that motivates people. But I would argue that over the long run, it is the dominant one across a large group of people.

6:55 PM

And i would argue that the status quo in Precious Plastic is there is almost 0 people contributing. So there isn't much to mess up.

6:57 PM

Precious Plastic has always been primarily a top down, centralized creation and distribution of knowledge. (edited)

6:58 PM

Also tokenization is not just about money. It's also about shared ownership, governance, and incentive alignment. (edited)

7:01 PM

Commons stack for example talks a lot about the "cultural build" as part of tokenizing a community. I do think that is absolutely important. Gotta have the feeling of a community and the structures in place to nourish community and values. (edited)

also this article is worth a read @Yann https://blog.goodaudience.com/rewriting-the-story-of-human-collaboration-c33a8a4cd5b8

Rewriting the Story of Human Collaboration

(Or, an Introduction to Token Bonding & Curation Markets)

1

Joseph

Precious Plastic has always been primarily a top down, centralized creation and distribution of knowledge. (edited)

on the spot here! for that same reason it needs to be built from the bottom up, with cultural build just as you mention it

9:01 PM

all these details we're talking about are nice discussions but it's not the right starting point

9:38 PM

https://youtu.be/qP7wqLWV33M

ETHDenver

Take the Green Pill - Kevin Owocki

1

Joseph

Also tokenization is not just about money. It's also about shared ownership, governance, and incentive alignment. (edited)

I think it is crucial for ourselves to understand the prime goal of creating a DAO + Token. I am curious what your top reasons would be.

My top reason would be to align the individual incentives of the community with the collective goal of the project (edited)

10:28 AM

2nd would be to develop a sustainable funding source for the project that doesn't rely on external input to the system (from people or entities that are not involved) (edited)

Joseph

My top reason would be to align the individual incentives of the community with the collective goal of the project (edited)

aligned here, I think this also a strong claim/mission when will be the time to go live

and what about PP´s purpose? What is it for you guys?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

and what about PP´s purpose? What is it for you guys?

Tackle the plastic waste problem!!

that's what we need to create

2

Mattia

that's what we need to create

https://fundingthecommons.io/

Funding The Commons - Conference 2022

Funding the Commons is a virtual summit for individuals and organizations building new models of sustainable public goods funding and value alignment in open source networks.

1

enti

all these details we're talking about are nice discussions but it's not the right starting point

which is the right starting point?

enti

https://youtu.be/qP7wqLWV33M

Did any of you read the book? https://greenpill.party/preview.pdf

8:46 AM

I will talk with a guy from Longtail Financial today about PP

I listed some PP stakeholders on this canvas: https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOPvsqZ4=/ would be great to see your input there @deleted-role

PP DAO

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

which is the right starting point?

starting from the bottom up (community/cultural building, then tokenomics and such) instead of starting from the top which is pretty much what we've been discussing

1

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Did any of you read the book? https://greenpill.party/preview.pdf

nope, just purchased a physical copy this week!!

1

Yep on my todo list too but his podcast is soooo good.. much to learn!

Joseph

https://fundingthecommons.io/

from protocol lab, the people behind sourceCred?

https://www.ecobricks.org/brikcoins/ I found this randomly while I was looking for different brick making process. This is different than what we are looking for, but still fun : a manually done blockchain, to authenticate and reward people segregating plastic away from the environment.

Russell Maier

Brikcoins - Ecobricks.org

Mattia

from protocol lab, the people behind sourceCred?

Protocol Labs are the folks behind IPFS and Filecoin

oh gosh, big guys

10:01 AM

this goes to show how new we're (I am) into the space

Yann

https://www.ecobricks.org/brikcoins/ I found this randomly while I was looking for different brick making process. This is different than what we are looking for, but still fun : a manually done blockchain, to authenticate and reward people segregating plastic away from the environment.

cool.. I think this page is also interesting.. https://www.gobrik.com/#offset/ plastic offset is an interesting concept we could also use to drive PPC demand up from external sources.

10:07 AM

I've been thinking about this and spoke with @Joseph extensively about the option of Precious Plastic to become a carbon offset org with the logic being every kg recycled > is a kg of CO2 stored in oil field or not generated > people could offset their carbon by buying PPC or specific kg of plastic recycled

1

Mattia

cool.. I think this page is also interesting.. https://www.gobrik.com/#offset/ plastic offset is an interesting concept we could also use to drive PPC demand up from external sources.

@Joseph was talking with https://www.empower.eco/ some weeks ago if I am not mistaken

Empower | The Future of Plastic is Circular

Yann

https://www.ecobricks.org/brikcoins/ I found this randomly while I was looking for different brick making process. This is different than what we are looking for, but still fun : a manually done blockchain, to authenticate and reward people segregating plastic away from the environment.

nice! I think we could explore how to plug this into PPC

enti

starting from the bottom up (community/cultural building, then tokenomics and such) instead of starting from the top which is pretty much what we've been discussing

What next step shall we take to work on the "cultural build"?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

I will talk with a guy from Longtail Financial today about PP

Yesterday, I talked with Mike from Long Tail Financial (https://www.longtail.financial/). I think they are used to working with clients (vs partners) and he would like to talk with someone from the core team. I think they have technical knowledge (modelling and deployment) that will be needed at some point, but echoing what @enti says I think there is a lot of "soft" work to be done beforehand. In this regard, @enti I think the canvases in Miro ( https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOPvsqZ4=/) (I feel super stubborn with this

) are a great way to map what is already existing. Because although as @Joseph mentioned PP has been top down centralised, there is already a big "community" with a lot of interactions happening.

1

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

What next step shall we take to work on the "cultural build"?

tough call, i can make some assumptions but frankly i've never been involved in the process of building (crypto oriented) culture from scratch, much less a project that's already running and of a decent size

4:42 PM

what i'm thinking is pretty much getting people involved, making some workshops/meetings where PP can collectively discuss the cultural foundation of a collectively owned PP

1

4:45 PM

i was involved in a call just yesterday from some folks setting up RnDAO (Research & Development DAO) and they were just discussing what consensus meant for them, how should they make decisions, etc. here some of the stuff they were discussing: (edited)

4:45 PM

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4:47 PM

with the size of PP may be worth as well to knock some doors and see if anyone with relevant experience on the space would be interested/available to join

enti

tough call, i can make some assumptions but frankly i've never been involved in the process of building (crypto oriented) culture from scratch, much less a project that's already running and of a decent size

There is always a first time

enti

with the size of PP may be worth as well to knock some doors and see if anyone with relevant experience on the space would be interested/available to join

Shall we meet some day next week to decide next steps and assign them to people?

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Yesterday, I talked with Mike from Long Tail Financial (https://www.longtail.financial/). I think they are used to working with clients (vs partners) and he would like to talk with someone from the core team. I think they have technical knowledge (modelling and deployment) that will be needed at some point, but echoing what @enti says I think there is a lot of "soft" work to be done beforehand. In this regard, @enti I think the canvases in Miro ( https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOPvsqZ4=/) (I feel super stubborn with this

) are a great way to map what is already existing. Because although as @Joseph mentioned PP has been top down centralised, there is already a big "community" with a lot of interactions happening.

This is a 1pager from LTF

LONGTAIL_FINANCIAL_info.pdf

114.35 KB

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Shall we meet some day next week to decide next steps and assign them to people?

We have this doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sfr6PofZCAVHg28Q1YXpMekwz_pwAFoOhWnPEbqD5Fs/edit#heading=h.f88u3hg0clg1) with some agenda items. Feel free to add more

PP DAO

Key Assets needed Funding Giveth, Gitcoin (+Panvala for matching on donations) Mirror Sovereign nature initiative Grants Earth fund POPcorn Interchain foundation Harmony ESP Small grants (up to 30k) Project grant (no cap) Accelerator Seedclub Metapod Kernel Token engineering academy Legal assis...

Joseph started a thread. 3/3/2022 9:46 PM

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Shall we meet some day next week to decide next steps and assign them to people?

sure, why not

Just sharing a few concerns with the technology and teams. Blockchain and crypto in general is super interesting. At the same time I feel like it is such a fast moving world like I probably never seen before. Few top projects. Hundreds of mediocre moonshots. My worry is to get into this relying on tools that will be dead or discontinued in a matter of years/months. Take for examle SourceCred, been liked to it repeatedly over the past months as a good example of a blockchain project. Looking at it I got super hyped. Looking deeper into it they seem to be in a bit of a crisis (already‼⁇) with seemingly lack of direction, not funding to pay the team and so on. My worry is that we jump start with a stack of tools which are so new and unstable that could fuck us over in no time. Maybe I'm being overly cautious (maybe cause I'm becoming a dad in a few weeks

) but these are some of the worries going through my head when tinkering about this.

3:00 PM

For reference, at Precious Plastic we've been historically very conservative with our techstack only using tools, platforms and frameworks once they were solid and long proved. Not saying this is a good thing or that we should continue as such. Just providing some context here.

1

Mattia

Just sharing a few concerns with the technology and teams. Blockchain and crypto in general is super interesting. At the same time I feel like it is such a fast moving world like I probably never seen before. Few top projects. Hundreds of mediocre moonshots. My worry is to get into this relying on tools that will be dead or discontinued in a matter of years/months. Take for examle SourceCred, been liked to it repeatedly over the past months as a good example of a blockchain project. Looking at it I got super hyped. Looking deeper into it they seem to be in a bit of a crisis (already‼⁇) with seemingly lack of direction, not funding to pay the team and so on. My worry is that we jump start with a stack of tools which are so new and unstable that could fuck us over in no time. Maybe I'm being overly cautious (maybe cause I'm becoming a dad in a few weeks

) but these are some of the worries going through my head when tinkering about this.

Yeah that's understandable, I must clarify that one advantage of these systems is that you aren't really tied to a "tool", you usually can transfer permissions say from Aragon to Gardens but yeah there's still a lot of room for improvement on the space

5:14 PM

congrats btw!

Joseph

Commons stack for example talks a lot about the "cultural build" as part of tokenizing a community. I do think that is absolutely important. Gotta have the feeling of a community and the structures in place to nourish community and values. (edited)

some kind of build contest would be super cool with all your creators as an 'onboarding event'! It could be an annual hit! freak machine builds, handy new products. a real odyssey of the mind ... idk ... i feel like you all have no shortage of creativity...

it would be an excuse to generate and strengthen stable cultural value ties and account for fresh and existing value
the up and coming voting and funding mechanism will get a good trial to vote for winners
there'll be some kind of distribution method for your fungible anyway ... if you can cleverly account for existing community value while you distribute, it will be a hit even after the speculation bubble. A contest is a good framework for distributing funds without making it about the money while also not just handing it out.
if there's nonfungibles (to account for the new freak machines ) -- maybe make it part of the odyssey of the mind adventure contest to mint the details of the new product or machine creations. now all of a sudden everyone will want to know what an nft is because they will realize, amongst many other things, it's like a modern poor man's patent. a robo-notary that's always open.
the flow from fungible to non fungible and back again is what value exchange is all about just my 2 cents - So cool to see you all opening the floor up to these talks!

1

https://twitter.com/ethswarmhive/status/1501512533127331844?s=20&t=u8XUfIJ4ZIJCxsIQCUgY8Q

Swarm Hive (@ethswarmhive)

Start your DAO day Discover how to harness the power of community with #DAOs from the industry pioneers Today's panel: "DAOS AND PURPOSEFUL COMMUNITIES" features @TheLAOOfficial @AssangeDAO @joincolony @DXdao_ @Givethio @daostack Begins 19 CET 14 EST https://t.co/9XGCGuZ6Ba https://t.co/F6HbepJiKU

1

likely a Precious Plastic project in giveth https://giveth.io/project/RECenter-the-Resource-Recycling-Center-San-Salvador-0

Check out RECenter the Resource Recycling Center San Salvador

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enti

sure, why not

Hey guys! @enti and I agreed to meet this Thursday at 14 UTC+1 to discuss current situation and future steps. You are welcome to join! There is no voice channel in this server, right? Would be great to have one

Mattia

likely a Precious Plastic project in giveth https://giveth.io/project/RECenter-the-Resource-Recycling-Center-San-Salvador-0

this is awesome!

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Hey guys! @enti and I agreed to meet this Thursday at 14 UTC+1 to discuss current situation and future steps. You are welcome to join! There is no voice channel in this server, right? Would be great to have one

Love this guys! Would totally join but I have covid at the moment and am simultaneously slammed with precious plastic work

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Yep I feel like some excuses a due to the team here.. we've been very slow

that's what happens when you have limited resource, no funds and a small team.. gotta change that

I believe Q2 will be more focused on DAO

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8:13 AM

Talking about this, I am trying to redesign the Discord to better accommodate the growing needs of Precious Plastic, I would be curious to know what channels you'd like to have there. Voice channels you were saying, any other you think could be useful? (edited)

Joseph

Love this guys! Would totally join but I have covid at the moment and am simultaneously slammed with precious plastic work

get well soon! (edited)

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Mattia

Talking about this, I am trying to redesign the Discord to better accommodate the growing needs of Precious Plastic, I would be curious to know what channels you'd like to have there. Voice channels you were saying, any other you think could be useful? (edited)

from my side the voice channels would be enough to chat from time to time at least for now, idk what other things could be needed for the community

1

Hello guys, @enti and I have been discussing how we can move this process forward. Enti heard from someone on Commons Stack that they plan to launch a second pilot by the end of the year, it would be great if PP was the selected pilot

but still, we believe we can keep moving forward. We can all keep researching how existing communities have worked in their "DAOfication" process, while we practice our own. We thought we could set up two working groups:

Funding: looking for funding for the design process. (We think that at some point the work load will get bigger and funding will help us to keep working)

Org design: mapping what the current PP community looks like (including how the core @deleted-role works together) and collectively defining what we want to create (what are our shared values, definitions? How do we want to relate to each other? What is our shared purpose?, etc.)

And invite the whole PP community to join this process, through weekly calls on discord (we would have to select a time for this). These sessions can also be a place to share and solve doubts and to create a shared understanding about "crypto". Or we could organise some bi-weekly calls for this purpose. We would like to know the core @deleted-role ´s opinion on this proposal and we would also suggest to make a "poll" to know if this is something the PP community wants to embark on or not (basically to make sure that there is not a big opposition to it)

1

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Hello guys, @enti and I have been discussing how we can move this process forward. Enti heard from someone on Commons Stack that they plan to launch a second pilot by the end of the year, it would be great if PP was the selected pilot

but still, we believe we can keep moving forward. We can all keep researching how existing communities have worked in their "DAOfication" process, while we practice our own. We thought we could set up two working groups:

Funding: looking for funding for the design process. (We think that at some point the work load will get bigger and funding will help us to keep working)

Org design: mapping what the current PP community looks like (including how the core @deleted-role works together) and collectively defining what we want to create (what are our shared values, definitions? How do we want to relate to each other? What is our shared purpose?, etc.)

And invite the whole PP community to join this process, through weekly calls on discord (we would have to select a time for this). These sessions can also be a place to share and solve doubts and to create a shared understanding about "crypto". Or we could organise some bi-weekly calls for this purpose. We would like to know the core @deleted-role ´s opinion on this proposal and we would also suggest to make a "poll" to know if this is something the PP community wants to embark on or not (basically to make sure that there is not a big opposition to it)

Good news! This is the type form to apply for Commons Prize (https://the-commons-stack.typeform.com/commonsprize?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=207239053&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8R4nR6a7bM8mPoLoOofCBiAID9mXHHeNOzYM39Ofk_UAWn8lCnK4CtrJ-pZhNReL_eSH_ecZUcJ9T5fEANggdiIwQX8g&utm_content=207239053&utm_source=hs_email) and get Commons Stack´s support to launch a commons

The Commons Prize

The Commons Stack will soon be launching The Commons Prize! Use this form to signal your interest in starting a Commons with dedicated support from Commons Stack.

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Good news! This is the type form to apply for Commons Prize (https://the-commons-stack.typeform.com/commonsprize?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=207239053&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8R4nR6a7bM8mPoLoOofCBiAID9mXHHeNOzYM39Ofk_UAWn8lCnK4CtrJ-pZhNReL_eSH_ecZUcJ9T5fEANggdiIwQX8g&utm_content=207239053&utm_source=hs_email) and get Commons Stack´s support to launch a commons

Wow guys this is HUGE

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12:17 PM

Really sorry for the silence here - I just got over covid and @Mattia just had a baby!!!

12:17 PM

Will revert next week

Joseph

Wow guys this is HUGE

I think I can speak for @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond and myself to say that please don't mind us lol we're just sharing ideas and thoughts. There's no rush and we don't want to be putting extra things on top of your work, you having covid, Mattia's newborn, etc. - we're just hyped!!

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Joseph

Really sorry for the silence here - I just got over covid and @Mattia just had a baby!!!

Congrats @Mattia . Enjoy

1

Hey everyone thanks for pushing this forward

7:59 AM

@Mettodo | Njombe Beyond i like the idea. Open weekly call are good and would help keep up the momentum. I think if we would ask the community today without prior education there might be unnecessary resistance. We should start the calls and invite everyone interested. Learn as we go.

1

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Good news! This is the type form to apply for Commons Prize (https://the-commons-stack.typeform.com/commonsprize?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=207239053&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8R4nR6a7bM8mPoLoOofCBiAID9mXHHeNOzYM39Ofk_UAWn8lCnK4CtrJ-pZhNReL_eSH_ecZUcJ9T5fEANggdiIwQX8g&utm_content=207239053&utm_source=hs_email) and get Commons Stack´s support to launch a commons

Really seems like what we need. Nice found

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8:01 AM

When is the deadline to apply?

Mattia

When is the deadline to apply?

They said: We will be reaching out to applicants in April to share feedback and the next steps to submit your application for the Commons Prize. I guess it would be good to apply ASAP (it takes 2 minutes) (edited)

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yeah i went through the farm and they don't really ask much stuff for now

@Maker Island ☠ Leão welcome !

Hey guys thanks for the invite I see I have a lot to catch up! gonna try to have a read through the read and give my best input

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

Good news! This is the type form to apply for Commons Prize (https://the-commons-stack.typeform.com/commonsprize?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=207239053&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8R4nR6a7bM8mPoLoOofCBiAID9mXHHeNOzYM39Ofk_UAWn8lCnK4CtrJ-pZhNReL_eSH_ecZUcJ9T5fEANggdiIwQX8g&utm_content=207239053&utm_source=hs_email) and get Commons Stack´s support to launch a commons

OK guys I applied for us !!

3

Strong foundations for our work https://nakamoto.com/credible-neutrality/

Credible Neutrality As A Guiding Principle

When building mechanisms that decide high-stakes outcomes, it’s important for those mechanisms to be credibly neutral.

Mattia

Strong foundations for our work https://nakamoto.com/credible-neutrality/

i've heard of the term a couple of times but it's the first time i read about it, really good post

9:51 PM

there's something that particularly struck with me, Vitalik mentions a few times the need or fault of a system that inherently benefits miners/validators but doesn't have an structured and neutrally credible framework to pay developers

9:53 PM

imo it's important to notice at which layer of the implementation do you need that credible neutrality mechanism, a blockchain once deployed can run without a single dev interaction, but it can't without miners/validators

9:53 PM

does it mean it will succeed? most likely it won't but that's my point, each mechanism should be made on the pertinent layer of the system

9:54 PM

just wanted to share my thoughts around that, i just thing it's important to know where to draw the line as to where core mechanisms may just be too much and make the system too complex

2

another top read https://otherinter.net/research/positive-sum-worlds/

Positive Sum Worlds: Remaking Public Goods

An era of global protocols requires a visionary redefinition of public goods, in service of others.

Post identities https://zine.zora.co/post-identity-future

Our Decentralized Selves: Creating in a Post-Identity Future

Web3 gives creators the chance to be born again over and over, discarding and circumventing limits or requirements for pre-existing identity, reputation, or experience

@unicornio ask and you shall recieve !

crypto never sleeps ser

4:13 PM

GM

4:13 PM

1st things 1st...

4:13 PM

Twitter handles pleaze

4:14 PM

does PP have a twitter account?

Nope

ok, will DM you mine

4:17 PM

any consensus regarding creating a DAO?

right now we are in the information gathering stage , but this group is interested!

4:19 PM

What made you make the connection between Precious Plastic and a DAO?

its a match made in heaven

4:29 PM

it can empower the community

yes i think we agree

4:30 PM

1

4:30 PM

Are you a pp recycler ?

not yet.... just a crypto unicorn... I know my way around DAOs

4:32 PM

been in egypt for 4 months and have been looking for something like PP since I arrived

4:33 PM

Plastic is a horrible problem in Egypt

4:34 PM

1st I took a look at Plastic Bank, but I can relate more with the ethos of PP

nice what dAOS are you most involved in?

Idle Finance, Paladin

5:01 PM

Mostly governance frameworks and tokenomics

nice @unicornio ! We are hoping to apply for the the Commons Stack process of getting help in starting a DAO

The team at commons stack is absolutely fantastic, big fan! feel free to add me to the convo.

@unicornio welcome on board.. great to have your energy and enthusiasm. Coming at the right time with dao and tokenomic taking center stage in q2 (edited)

welcome @unicornio!

1

unicornio

Idle Finance, Paladin

I’ve seen those names before but I’m not sure what are those projects into, curious to know

https://medium.com/commonsstack/announcing-the-commons-prize-d3df343c37a9

Announcing the Commons Prize!

The next regenerative Commons economy to support public goods could be yours. Nominate your community!

@Joseph @Mattia @enti thanks for the warm welcome sers (edited)

I think we should try get into SC05.. seems the kind of mentoring that could get us far and beyond https://club.mirror.xyz/xv-Iq8zbH_uCod72ZgYF4GW7t4g-yM7nq15pGD7B69I (edited)

SC04 Demo Day

SC04 marks Seed Club’s fourth Accelerator cohort - twenty-one incredible projects representing a vast array of big ideas: climate, music, apparel, media, astrology, creativity, consumer packaged goods, food, NFTs, sports, and education.

I think seedclub is interesting and valuable, but more for the startup type DAO. Commons stack is in my opinion more aligned with us because they are focused on public goods and social impact

2

11:44 AM

Hey @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond , what are your thoughts from being inside the trusted seed? Do you think we would have a good chance in this nomination process?

You guys wanna collab on this application ? There is a video portion where I think we can really shine

1

12:23 PM

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fafLEkK4cpQimVy48PN7bZh1SDV1llXC4UhsagDJy_0/edit

Commons Stack Nomination

Commons Prize Nomination Form Our answers in bluePART 1 Criteria: a. Must be a community focused on a common cause. * There are many great projects and products that can benefit from the support of a Commons but do not need to actually become a Commons themselves. A commons is a community o...

@ma@Mattia @Joseph I would definitely add https://launch.prime.xyz/ to your research.

Some of the team members are NL based

12:37 PM

Also Portugal

12:37 PM

Small world

Joseph

Hey @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond , what are your thoughts from being inside the trusted seed? Do you think we would have a good chance in this nomination process?

I have no "insider" info

@enti is also a TS, right? I read that "A Commons is a community or a coalition of projects that will together advance a particular mission benefiting a public good" and "mission-aligned projects or products can group together to launch a Commons to fund their shared mission such as DeSci, ReFi, UBI, Self Sovereign Identity, etc." This made me think whether CS is looking for communities with a broader scope than PP

I think it is something worth asking @usamaahmed#9991

Yeah no clue tbh

4:19 PM

There isn’t too much information and hard to guess when there only has been 1 commons (the TEC)

Joseph

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fafLEkK4cpQimVy48PN7bZh1SDV1llXC4UhsagDJy_0/edit

Doesn’t seem like they want to deal with non-crypto communities, so that’s probably a deal breaker

@enti why do you think so ?

Joseph

@enti why do you think so ?

The steps and timeframe

4:31 PM

4 steps in 9 months assuming web3 basics

4:32 PM

Not trying to discourage tho, if I were then I’d chose PP

4:32 PM

I just think it’s important to be aware of that

I think you guys get a vote because you are in the trusted seed!!

That’d be great

4:35 PM

I think your comment on the doc is very spot on

4:35 PM

About making a poll or something

4:36 PM

What’s more important is that if PP has any chance that the Commons Stack don’t come here and find a non-receptive community

4:36 PM

IMO

enti

What’s more important is that if PP has any chance that the Commons Stack don’t come here and find a non-receptive community

yes that's a good point

4:40 PM

1

4:40 PM

he likes PP so that's good

Great!!

enti

What’s more important is that if PP has any chance that the Commons Stack don’t come here and find a non-receptive community

don’t want to make any compromises but I’d be down to put an hour aside every week or two weeks to get some people in a voice chat and talk about web3 if that helps

2

enti

What’s more important is that if PP has any chance that the Commons Stack don’t come here and find a non-receptive community

enti

don’t want to make any compromises but I’d be down to put an hour aside every week or two weeks to get some people in a voice chat and talk about web3 if that helps

me too.. me and @Joseph have been trying to meet to kick off the basics but we (I manly) failed to keep it up. So it might actually be beneficial to open it up to more people to have more accountability and have a better chance at keeping these meetings up. @Joseph ?

Mattia

i'm not sure what you're trying to say with that

enti

i'm not sure what you're trying to say with that

the power of emoji language.. constant uncertainty

I meant you have a point (and not a good one for our case)

oh lol right

I think our strong case is an already established community that wants to transition to DAO/crypto. I think there might be many chains out there that might actually be interested to test it out IRL.. All projects I see they start from zero. Our case would be slightly different, reverse engineering crypto into the project.

5:41 PM

Anyone knows of an established project successfully transitioning to cryptoeconomics and DAO? (edited)

Mattia

I think our strong case is an already established community that wants to transition to DAO/crypto. I think there might be many chains out there that might actually be interested to test it out IRL.. All projects I see they start from zero. Our case would be slightly different, reverse engineering crypto into the project.

yes!! that's why this is so exciting

Mattia

Anyone knows of an established project successfully transitioning to cryptoeconomics and DAO? (edited)

hmm i know of https://poolsuite.net but they just implemented a "VIP" with an NFT pass, and given the nature of the project is way easier

Poolsuite™

The ultra-summer internet radio station, playing an infinity pool of summer sounds 24/7. Swimwear optional. Formerly Poolside FM.

5:45 PM

there's also some crypto-native that transitioned to DAOs like Shapeshift but yeah PP is unique in that regard

got this message (edited)

Joseph

got this message (edited)

LFG!!!

Sounds good right!?!

yes!!!

5:47 PM

how many years has PP been running?

Mattia

Anyone knows of an established project successfully transitioning to cryptoeconomics and DAO? (edited)

I don't but there MUST be open source software projects thinking th esame thing

enti

how many years has PP been running?

since 2013 ish

Joseph

I don't but there MUST be open source software projects thinking th esame thing

i think PP is unique in that it's a non-digital open source if that makes sense

Joseph

since 2013 ish

I never know if this is good or bad

there's probably plenty of digital open sources benefiting from web3 like NumFOCUS (a org that supports plenty of python libraries) that recently got a "grant" from the TEC

Mattia

I never know if this is good or bad

i think it's actually one of the most attractive parts of this! an open source community with almost 10 years running

1

some people might say that in 10yrs we should have achieved more

5:52 PM

and maybe is time to give up

im just thinking if i were part of the Commons Stack team i'd like it because:

pretty cool project and mission with a demonstrated record
real chance and use cases to benefit from a web3 economy
good PR for the CS, just imagine the great news that could be made from the CS helping in bringing this (they seem to be wanting to adopt a business model where communities pay them to build a Commons so good PR is always appreciated)

1

Mattia

and maybe is time to give up

shoot that's hard to read

1

5:54 PM

i think you've accomplished a lot more than many of us could have done

enti

im just thinking if i were part of the Commons Stack team i'd like it because:

pretty cool project and mission with a demonstrated record
real chance and use cases to benefit from a web3 economy
good PR for the CS, just imagine the great news that could be made from the CS helping in bringing this (they seem to be wanting to adopt a business model where communities pay them to build a Commons so good PR is always appreciated)

anyone at CS mentoring on this?

what do you mean?

Dunno someone we could jump on a call to talk things through? To gauge a bit their feelings about pp

hmm probably the guy Joseph is talking with

We can always network in their discord

i think they have a call every two weeks or something where people can showcase projects

I am going to post this in there right now: Hey guys! Joseph here from Precious Plastic, an open source hardware community for plastic recycling. Around 600 organizations use our tech around the world to recycle plastic into new products. We are stoked on Commons Stack and your support for public goods, and are planning on applying to the Commons Stack Prize. Our question for you is....is our community something that you think is a good candidate for the prize? We are an active community that supports the commons of our open source knowledge around plastic recycling ( machine blueprints, product designs, techniques for making products, supporting software, etc). However we are not a "crypto first" community, and we're wondering if that is a good or bad thing in your eyes. In our view, we'd love to be one of the first showcases of an impact DAO that is not crypto first, but solving a social/environmental problem in the real world. What do you think? (edited)

6:07 PM

(basically i want to put our project in their faces ahead of the prize)

I would put at least one piece of data about the size of pp (600+ orgs around the world)

6:09 PM

maybe also .. "since 2013" somewhere?

updated

...most people..

12:38 PM

Maybe 5% of pp community used metamask

12:38 PM

But either ways that's very good answer!

IDK about that.....the hardcore community i bet it's 30-40 %

Screenshot (Apr 8, 2022 12:08:11 PM)

Joseph

IDK about that.....the hardcore community i bet it's 30-40 %

Yeah you’d be impressed at how many people has tried crypto at least once

Joseph

Screenshot (Apr 8, 2022 12:08:11 PM)

That’s a really nice idea tho, but that’s more up to you guys

With a recycling commons you get talent from all projects around the world and a bigger sample of community that’s familiar with both recycling and web3 and PP would slowly integrate instead of transforming (which may or may not involve some resistance from the current community)

I would say pp is the global plastic recycling commons

fair, i don't really have a good perception of the whole recycling landscape so sorry if i jump on incorrect assumptions

4:04 PM

but thinking about that, if PP opens as a commons i wonder if there's a way to attract users from other projects, particularly from the group that is also familiar with web3 so there's not AS much pressure for the current PP community to be elegible

4:04 PM

idk if that makes sense

enti

but thinking about that, if PP opens as a commons i wonder if there's a way to attract users from other projects, particularly from the group that is also familiar with web3 so there's not AS much pressure for the current PP community to be elegible

That does make sense. That's why I think a partnership with empower could work (Norwegian waste Blockchain project )

1

https://www.kolektivolabs.co/

Kolektivo Labs

Kolektivo Labs is a systems innovation lab committed to enabling the full potential of human coordination.

Mattia

Anyone knows of an established project successfully transitioning to cryptoeconomics and DAO? (edited)

https://www.kolektivolabs.co/

Kolektivo Labs

Kolektivo Labs is a systems innovation lab committed to enabling the full potential of human coordination.

Mattia

some people might say that in 10yrs we should have achieved more

You were too early

1:19 PM

I am happy to help if needed. Feel free to add me to any calls/conversations. Setting up a DAO is not rocket science. All the guys that you have been talking to are very passionate about what they do and I have zero doubts that will do their best to provide direction to the PP team. (edited)

https://earthstate.ixo.world/decentralised-impact-organisations/

Decentralised Impact Organisations

The climate crisis is a governance and coordination crisis. Could Decentralised Impact Organisations (DIOs) built on DAOs and ReFi for climate verification, staked commitments & collective action, be a solution?

2:17 PM

PP : a DAO or a DIO ?

unicornio

I am happy to help if needed. Feel free to add me to any calls/conversations. Setting up a DAO is not rocket science. All the guys that you have been talking to are very passionate about what they do and I have zero doubts that will do their best to provide direction to the PP team. (edited)

I actually have to disagree there

putting up the DAO as far as minting a token and having a governance platform isn’t rocket science, but designing the DAO to be long lasting and ensure it has a real impact isn’t a easy task…

1

It gets easier after doing it for 2 years

5:52 PM

5:54 PM

Actually, jokes aside, I truly believe that tokenomics is the easier part. From my experience community growth and engagement is the tricky part.

5:54 PM

Luckily, PP has been building its community for a lot of years already.

5:57 PM

So, there are a lot of reasons to be very excited about either converting to or adding a DAO to PP

you guys would like the discussions at Omega surrounding the TE Consillience Library I think: https://discord.com/channels/810180621930070088/810180622634844202 jump in a weekly call and see what's going on. they love to talk ethics and multidisciplinary library research with clever ways of loosening people up and creating bonds to find out what people really need

2

Mattia

Dunno someone we could jump on a call to talk things through? To gauge a bit their feelings about pp

In the end it is trusted seeds (around 400 people if I am not mistaken) voting to choose the commons. Thus, some marketing/ communications will not harm if we want to increase our chances of being selected

Specially when we make it into the 3-5 finalists

1

What is the status of fixing fashion and beyond plastic? Any chance they can be part of a coalition? Sensorica is another potential partner for an open hardware coalition. I sent a message in their server

️ (edited)

3

Jolly LaMa

you guys would like the discussions at Omega surrounding the TE Consillience Library I think: https://discord.com/channels/810180621930070088/810180622634844202 jump in a weekly call and see what's going on. they love to talk ethics and multidisciplinary library research with clever ways of loosening people up and creating bonds to find out what people really need

That's definitely necessary in the space. EVERYONE I know that tries to get into web3 / DeFi feels overwhelmed.

Ok let's give this a try. Weekly DAO meeting. What day time is best for everyone here? What timezones you lot are?

9:16 AM

I propose to do the first one to kickstart where we meet each other and jam on ideas.

Mattia

Ok let's give this a try. Weekly DAO meeting. What day time is best for everyone here? What timezones you lot are?

We can use this to schedule https://lettucemeet.com/l/qlwq5

LettuceMeet - Easy Group Scheduling

The easiest way to schedule group meetings.

4

3:57 PM

I already put my availability, once everyone puts theirs in there we can chose the best time, pinging everyone who has been involved @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond @unicornio @Joseph @Jolly LaMa (edited)

3:59 PM

(if you make an account it will automatically send a calendar invitation once its scheduled)

Already added

5:56 PM

I am GMT+2

unicornio

Already added

it seems like it's empty

6:00 PM

should be ok now

6:16 PM

added mine, looking forward

Ok seems like we have a time/date, don't you think? Thursday 21st 5pm? Shall I put it in my calendar?

Mattia

Ok seems like we have a time/date, don't you think? Thursday 21st 5pm? Shall I put it in my calendar?

yup, just scheduled

4:12 PM

so do we agree on putting that time aside weekly or this is more a one-time meeting and we'll schedule others after?

@enti thank you for sorting this out

1

4:16 PM

That a good time for ne in general

4:17 PM

I'd be up for weekly to build a routine otherwise hundred things can come on the way

2

same

Anyone came across this before? https://coordinape.com/

Coordinape | Decentralizing Compensation

Nice article suggested by @unicornio

2:12 PM

https://mirror.xyz/0x6507C1693c70Ebab813BCeBD8Bcd9152Cfffa91b/WDKGKpfLy-9nX_reyecjdGDA8CRsZ9sy3jk-JjliFnc

Governance Mining — liquidity mining for human capital

This idea occurred to me at 2:00am on a Saturday as I scrolled through the COMP forum. Turns out it’s not a new idea. Proposal farming was first discussed (as far as I can tell) in June 2020 by James Waugh, which set the foundation for Fire Eyes DAO’s formal ‘Governance Mining’ proposal to Balancer in November 2020, yet somehow this concept has ...

Mattia

Anyone came across this before? https://coordinape.com/

onchain version of your local country club

Mattia

Anyone came across this before? https://coordinape.com/

one of the top reward systems, i don't personally find the concept that great but i haven't used it myself either so what do i know

I used it and know others that do too... does not really help... give it a test drive for 10 minutes and you will see what i mean

Mmh ye felt a little bare bones

8:14 PM

Anyone here know a production ready tool to track community contributions for potential future airdrop?

8:15 PM

Currently redesigning discord and would be really good to have something in place

Mattia

Anyone here know a production ready tool to track community contributions for potential future airdrop?

sourcecred.io is probably the best way to go about that

Mmh.. last time I checked they seemed in a bit if a leadership turmoil..

im pretty sure that's what TEC used to track contributions, and mint a "fake" token that then could be redeemed for $TEC

Mattia

Mmh.. last time I checked they seemed in a bit if a leadership turmoil..

yeah, they've had some issues, i don't know the exact status but haven't heard of any major problem lately

Not a clear direction forward or team to carry out the ambitious goals

regardless it's open source so it's not like you need much from them unless the current version doesn't fit the needs (edited)

Wanna make sure we don't setup something with a tool dead a few months later

i heard they're working on a new algorithm so i assume they sorted things out but idk tbh (edited)

Have you used it before? Does it actually work?

Yes, at 1Hive we had one of the biggest instances

8:21 PM

I know MakerDAO also uses it to some extent and now TEC is building a combined system (Praise + SourceCred)

Oh OK so biggish projects are actually using it right now

Does it work? Yes, not without its issues but it does yeah

8:22 PM

i'd say it's highly dependent on community culture/moderation, but i guess that's to expect with any reward system

Yes of course (edited)

It works via plugins, the TEC is going to use the forum and github plugin, but there's also the discord plugin

8:23 PM

for discord and other "subjective" things TEC is building a praise system where people actively praise others for their contributions

1

Plug and play? Or needs a dev to set it up?

and then a set of quantifiers put a value on the praises

Mattia

Plug and play? Or needs a dev to set it up?

it does need a bit of work but nothing too hard afaik, haven't done it and i'm not really familiar with the exact process so idk

1

8:26 PM

i've chatted a bit with someone from the project before, in any case i'm sure we can get some support or at least just set up a discussion to understand if it's the best fit

2

Mattia

Anyone here know a production ready tool to track community contributions for potential future airdrop?

will ask canuDAO guys and circle back to you

1

12:08 AM

also guild.xyz ... worth a check

2

12:10 AM

and https://atlantisworld.notion.site/atlantisworld/Atlantis-World-Wiki-6b0ce5cb1992482f8b6eb8c667a542e5 is fun

Atlantis World Wiki

TL;DR Atlantis World is building the Web3 social metaverse by connecting Web3 with social, gaming and education in one lightweight virtual world that’s accessible to everybody!

unicornio

also guild.xyz ... worth a check

oh.. this is new to me

have you used it at any time?

Played only... Big fan

Isn’t guild more of an access manager? Not really a contributions tracker/reward system afaik

1

https://dework.xyz/

Dework

The task manager for DAOs and decentralized work

10:41 PM

https://www.charmverse.io/

CharmVerse

First Web 3 Native All-in-one Workspace

If any of you can make it https://twitter.com/commonsstack/status/1514427460120715271

The Commons Stack 🌱 (@commonsstack)

Curious about how to nominate a community for the #CommonsPrize?

Join our AMA on April 18th at 10:00 am EST / 4:00 pm CET. Our team members will be answering all your Qs. Set your reminder & drop your questions below! ⤵️ ⏰https://t.co/Zg3lbsoKiv

might be able to weave Minds in to the ppdao. just throwin an idea at the wall : https://www.minds.com/newsfeed/1361751659067215881?referrer=thejollylama (edited)

@thejollylama's post on Minds

Subscribe to @thejollylama on Minds

https://store.gitcoin.co/products/impactdao-book-digital-edition

ImpactDAO Book [digital edition]

The community around the book GreenPilled - How Crypto Can Regenerate the World (available at https://greenpill.party) has envisioned that web3 has the potential to regenerate the world. With the GreenPilled book, we have established a digestible source of a priori knowledge (theoretical knowledge) of how we might use

So meeting on Thursday at 5pm CET?

2

Do we have an agenda?

@unicornio was maybe thinking first meeting as a wild jam of ideas, meeting each other, potentially taking on responsibilities etc..

2

7:04 PM

Then from the following meeting having more of an agenda

Mattia

@unicornio was maybe thinking first meeting as a wild jam of ideas, meeting each other, potentially taking on responsibilities etc..

+1 My goal for the next meeting is really to understand why the team is now considering a DAO. What's the vision and the ethos. For me this is the leadership from the core team I need to "get". (edited)

7:24 PM

Since the how-to for me is the easy part.

1

@unicornio cool you'll have plenty of that. @Joseph was sharing a presentation he put together regarding the whys.. somewhere at the beginning of this channel..

this is the presentation https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pqFrmHhgRB0Ju4K1w7SSsTvm9i8cCmJq7KPjXmAxglQ/edit#slide=id.g1010c00e91c_0_5

Precious Plastic Whitepaper Draft

Precious Plastic Whitepaper *This is 100% just a draft with some ideas :) Nothing serious

Just browsed through it... It's going to be a long call

8:40 PM

Good stuff overall. Pretty exciting.

unicornio

Just browsed through it... It's going to be a long call

ahahah that's the goal

looking forward to meet you all and kickstart this!

https://dc.mirror.xyz/PTbg7Qm_Nsi6Ppw35FbmC4DeV8SrkZ4c9ybXvDKByQE

Lessons learned from 6 months of running a decentralized content en...

Here are five key lessons I learned from building a decentralized content engine from scratch that you can apply to leading or contributing to your DAO.

Is the call tomorrow happening here on discord?

hmm not sure, we'd need a voice chat here if it is

starts in 30 minutes, right?

4:21 PM

damn summer time savings

4:21 PM

lol

I think that is tomorrow ?

4:40 PM

Joseph - Business — 18/04/2022 So meeting on Thursday at 5pm CET?

yeah it is tomorrow

my bad, good to know

4:54 PM

thanks guys

Yep tmw

6:16 PM

For the time being let's us an external tool.. planning to release events on discord + a voice channel in the next week

1

question, does everyone of you has a ethereum wallet?

2

3

2nd question, does everyone here have an HW wallet? (edited)

@Mattia has one

11:33 AM

I also have one but haven't used it

Based on a more classic shareholding manner, but they seems to be an example of what PP could do as a DAO / wide sharholding : https://www.time-planet.com/en/

Entrepreneurship at the service of climate emergency.

We are a nonprofit company creating and financing companies tackling climate change on a global scale. Join us!

Mattia

For the time being let's us an external tool.. planning to release events on discord + a voice channel in the next week

k so let's have it on google meet

Ok ok.. the day has come

meeting in 30min, we can use the link below Video call link: https://meet.google.com/czz-pcwo-hzr

yup yup excited!

1

4:38 PM

i made a base on clarity so we can take notes and organise better, it's a web3 tool but a wallet isn't required to join, you can use an email as well https://app.clarity.so/invite-link/8zEOFLW16D

Clarity — The simplest workspace for decentralized teams

Connect your wallet, share token-gated documents, coordinate projects and proposals, track tasks, trade notes, and build your own personal Wikipedia—in a familiar all-in-one workspace.

im already there btw

i must add to the commons stack funding process that wether you're a trusted seed or not if you contributed to the building of the community you get some "hatch tokens" that can be redeemed once the real token launches

1

6:32 PM

so everyone gets compensated for their distributions

Thanks everyone for joining yesterday's call

hope it was valuable for @enti and @unicornio too

it tottaly was. looking forward for you guys to circle back to us. let us all know what questions are still in your mind.

1

wasn't aware of this, thank you @unicornio and, of course, that would be our course of action I believe

its comes in different flavours... the common stack approach can be considered fair launch, Balancers LBP too, Copper too, Otonomos... most recently layer zero did one for stargate platform that is one of my favourites

2:31 PM

lol, sorry.... all fair launches with significant details in the process. Baby steps

2:34 PM

On a different note, from @Joseph mainly, from what i got yesterday, Its important to understand the existing money and work flows between the different elements that make PP open source project. Without that diagram(s) its is more difficult to imagine how the ecosystem can be (re?)modeled with a DAO + own token. (edited)

unicornio

On a different note, from @Joseph mainly, from what i got yesterday, Its important to understand the existing money and work flows between the different elements that make PP open source project. Without that diagram(s) its is more difficult to imagine how the ecosystem can be (re?)modeled with a DAO + own token. (edited)

yup i can explain that

a picture is worth 1000's words ser

I think we could structure the weekly meeting with 30mins of education with nice-to-know stuff and the rest 30 putting together some action items to move things forward

3:04 PM

Like the fair launches, governance methods or idk

3:05 PM

You seem to have done a lot of research already so may not be as useful

1:57 PM

Hey guys.. we're doing a bit of house keeping here on Discord. Am gonna post a message which will get pinned for new users to better navigate Discord. Feel free to ignore.

3

The DAO Work Group is exploring the feasibility of turning Precious Plastic into a DAO (Decentralized Autonomous Organization) where the community itself owns and governs Precious Plastic. If everything goes well, this channel is also where we’ll coordinate the work to make the DAO a reality. Goals

Understand if Precious Plastic can actually be turned into a DAO and whether that will have positive sum outcomes towards the Precious Plastic's goal of ending plastic waste.
Decide whether Precious Plastic should become a DAO
If positive, draft a plan and roadmap to transform Precious Plastic into a DAO
Implement all the necessary infrastructure changes

‍♀️Steward The current steward of this channel is @Mattia How it works 1. The steward coordinates, moderates and guide the efforts to materialize the DAO 2. @DAO Contributor contributes with their blockchain expertise and knowledge 3. The DAO Work Group meets every Thursday 5pm CET in the #meeting-room Research The process of turning Precious Plastic into a DAO will be documented here https://community.preciousplastic.com/research/turn-precious-plastic-into-a-dao Rules Same rules as One Army apply so let’s just be nice and respect each other How to join 1. Send a DM to @Mattia with who you are, what you will bring and number of hours/week you can help (edited)

Precious Plastic pinned a message to this channel. 4/25/2022 4:36 PM

Hey guys was trying to put together a bit of a recap from last week meeting to help us move forward. Collating from my own notes and @enti on clarity   Good points:

Legally it is not possible to mint a token with current setup
Define the token utility to align the interest of everyone
We need validation from the community and public scrutiny
We should aim for a Fair Launch without presales Questions that need answers: 
Why having the coin helps grow community?
What is the DAO relationship with LDA?
Who is in the DAO?
How people fit in the governance?
How do we reward everyone that have worked on Precious Plastic up until now? Few things seems high priority: 
Gain 100% consensus from the team (hard one ) @Joseph
Pros and Cons of transitioning to a DAO @Mattia
Outline relationship between PP and LDA @Joseph

Mattia

Hey guys was trying to put together a bit of a recap from last week meeting to help us move forward. Collating from my own notes and @enti on clarity   Good points:

Legally it is not possible to mint a token with current setup
Define the token utility to align the interest of everyone
We need validation from the community and public scrutiny
We should aim for a Fair Launch without presales Questions that need answers: 
Why having the coin helps grow community?
What is the DAO relationship with LDA?
Who is in the DAO?
How people fit in the governance?
How do we reward everyone that have worked on Precious Plastic up until now? Few things seems high priority: 
Gain 100% consensus from the team (hard one ) @Joseph
Pros and Cons of transitioning to a DAO @Mattia
Outline relationship between PP and LDA @Joseph

@Mattia amazing summary of where the discussion stands. Let me know if I can be of help regarding having 200% consensus from the team, which I see related to the pros and cons of transitioning/adding a DAO to the current open-source structure. (edited)

10:30 AM

It would be a good start if we can understand what are the friction points and bottlenecks that the core team is afraid of. Let's find out if they are legit or can be overcome.

https://optimism.mirror.xyz/gQWKlrDqHzdKPsB1iUnI-cVN3v0NvsWnazK7ajlt1fI

Introducing the Optimism Collective

It's time for a new chapter. Scaling the technology alone is not enough. We have a duty to scale our values along with our networks. In pursuit of this mission, we are excited to announce the Optimism Collective.

3:21 PM

This is a governance experiment to watch out for, arguably one of the best/most interesting structures out there

3:23 PM

Vitalik himself seems to be excited about that as it potentially solves some of his concerns on this post https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/08/16/voting3.html

Moving beyond coin voting governance

missed the airdrop

only used it once to stake ETH but needs more than 1 transaction to receive airdrop

3:40 PM

Yep vitalik has always been against coin voting.. I am personally not a huge fan either.. most token holder are not necessarily the ones in the best position to make decision..

3:44 PM

In our case I could see anyone on the Precious Plastic map (except simple members) having one vote (these are the people which will be affected by decisions).. potentially token holder with more than X tokens could also have 1 vote. Assuming anyone on the map has invested at least 10.000usd to get set up we could put that has the threshold for tokenholders

3:45 PM

are those types of hybrids possible from a tech perspective? @enti @unicornio

3:45 PM

I think merging the on-chain with RL credentials is where this would get real interesting

Mattia

are those types of hybrids possible from a tech perspective? @enti @unicornio

i mean pretty much everything is possible, the question is if there's something already built or if you have to do it yourself

3:50 PM

im personally not sure i've seen that

One thing you could do (and something the TEC seems to be interested in exploring) is dividing the votes and how you vote, which is similar to Optimism's approach

4:03 PM

so you can have a primary common pool governed by tokens and a snapshot strategy for other decisions

4:03 PM

with snapshot you can either mint NFTs so 1 person = 1 vote OR use a reputation system so the voting weight of the individuals increases as their reputation and involvement increases

I am not a fan of 1 person 1 vote systems. I feel if you give more to a commons, your vote should matter more

yeah, same

4:09 PM

i'm really excited about optimism's experiment though, i think it's an excellent hybrid

I think conviction voting like in 1hive or reputation in colony.io makes a lot of sense

enti

i'm really excited about optimism's experiment though, i think it's an excellent hybrid

I haven't looked into it yet. Looking forward

the only thing i don't like about reputation (or that i rather see on reputation systems) is some sort of decay, if you stop being active your reputation should decrease as well

4:12 PM

i also find reputation on the broad dao level not as compelling, you may have a great reputation on one subDAO/Working Group and a bad one in another

enti

the only thing i don't like about reputation (or that i rather see on reputation systems) is some sort of decay, if you stop being active your reputation should decrease as well

I believe it works like this in colony.io

4:14 PM

But my friend who works there says the product is shit at the moment

oh, great

4:14 PM

not really that familiar with colony

Joseph

But my friend who works there says the product is shit at the moment

ouch

But tbh I think all the platforms are just so new

yeah fair

4:16 PM

do you know why they say so? is it any limitation or they were too ambitious and haven't been able to deliver?

enti

do you know why they say so? is it any limitation or they were too ambitious and haven't been able to deliver?

yeah i think so many features still need to be built to really realize the viison

Mattia

I think merging the on-chain with RL credentials is where this would get real interesting

This! You got it, PP has the privilege of being able to mix onchain and IRL. What optimist is doing is good, and Salome and I worked on something that might also give you more ideas. We called it "Governance minting": https://twitter.com/SalomeBernhart/status/1487392476293996550

Salomé Bernhart 🦇🔊 (@SalomeBernhart)

TLDR; Governance Minting Inspired by @JacobPPhillips Governance Mining, and on my 1st anniversary of joining @idlefinance and more recently working for @YieldGuild I want to introduce the idea of Governance Minting #GovernanceMinting

2

Joseph

yeah i think so many features still need to be built to really realize the viison

hmm, that's interesting, iirc colony is one of the oldest projects and they still don't seem to figure stuff out

unicornio

This! You got it, PP has the privilege of being able to mix onchain and IRL. What optimist is doing is good, and Salome and I worked on something that might also give you more ideas. We called it "Governance minting": https://twitter.com/SalomeBernhart/status/1487392476293996550

sounds great but i worry it may create class separation

4:56 PM

there should be fluidity between the members of a leaderless organisation

4:58 PM

and possibly puts too much bureaucracy, not sure i agree with hard boundaries (edited)

good food for though @enti

enti

i mean pretty much everything is possible, the question is if there's something already built or if you have to do it yourself

+1 From a tech point of view everything is possible but ideally (safety comes to mind) you want to use tools that are already out there, audited and being actively developed. Another one for review is : https://www.charged.fi/ where you can have NFTs that can also hold DeFi primitives, time locks, memberships, reputation and other cool tricks that might make sense for a IRL DAO like PP.

DeFi NFTs | NFT Technology | NFT Gift Baskets | New NFT Protocols...

Charged Particles is the groundbreaking new protocol that lets you put digital assets inside your NFTs.

5:22 PM

I have the feeling that lack of tools will not be an issue, quite the contrary.

Hey team! So today me and @Joseph will meet to work on the high priority tasks outlines last week (https://discord.com/channels/586676777334865928/836898552046944256/968765710891376640) I don't think there is need for externals to join as it will be highly specific to our existing team and structure. However, if interested you can join here (trying out this web3 meet alternative) app.huddle01.com/room?roomId=3vxdxem1 (edited)

What time?

18 cet

1

Hey guys finally managed to read a 1 year's worth of information and have been digesting it

Looking forward to be present on the next meeting and give a contribution

2

Maker Island ☠ Leão

Hey guys finally managed to read a 1 year's worth of information and have been digesting it

Looking forward to be present on the next meeting and give a contribution

is this joa vivalab?

Mattia

is this joa vivalab?

the one and only

Mattia

is this joa vivalab?

Oh yeaaah

meeting happening here app.huddle01.com/room?roomId=3vxdxem1 (edited)

Oh shoot,

my bad

6:32 PM

Had to take care of some other stuff today

i think you did not miss anything ser.... i think it only starts in 40 minutes

Was actually at 6

7:49 PM

Making steps forward ti get 100% team approval

missed it

7:50 PM

next time

1

7:51 PM

discord events really help keeping track of the different time slots lol

https://refidao.com/

1

5:10 PM

PP DAO listing soon

5:10 PM

5:16 PM

I can connect PP with these guy's: https://plastiks.io/ (edited)

Agustin

Plastiks.io

The marketplace where single-use plastic (SUP) producers and recyclers can connect to make sure that plastic will not end up in the environment

5:17 PM

Possible money Lego

Great sunday read https://medium.com/borderless-capital/introduction-to-tokenomics-c7af75c09bfe

Introduction to Tokenomics

Over the past few months, we have experienced a surge in the number of projects seeking guidance on the economic model for their tokens…

Anyone has good read on game theory and DAOs?

hmm i'd have to check, can't remember off the top of my head

6:03 PM

this is a v good report from gitcoin and bankless on daos

6:03 PM

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1fLJvPOvibcCUpJ9ES44_cdoX5Hb7LpDaloGWz5FbUEM/edit?usp=sharing

DAOs - The New Coordination Frontier

Ligther Bankless Logo V2 DAOs The New Coordination Frontier Comprehensive Report Curated By ( September 2021 Edition )

Week May 2nd Hey everyone, it is my goal to stay more organized and help everyone stay on the same page on this channel. Here is a summary of the week ahead. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see and learn about. Last week achievements 1. @Joseph won 100% team support on moving forward with the DAO

Here is the presentation https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10jXz7WnV2AQ_KLn4W6aOglmANWfxJFaBQ2YySR82I6Y/edit?usp=sharing Weekly Goals 1. We aim to send in the Commons Stack application by Friday 7th. Feel free to helps us craft the application using this doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fafLEkK4cpQimVy48PN7bZh1SDV1llXC4UhsagDJy_0/edit?usp=sharing 2. Get Pros & Cons of transitioning to a DAO hammered out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z-StAA_3Vhq8WqbeJgpBREASHhaoUvT3dXXokoNniEg/edit?usp=sharing 3. Define the relationship between PP, LDA and DAO @Joseph 4. We will meet on Thursday 5pm CET to discuss Pros & Cons and relationship between PP, LDA and DAO https://meet.google.com/xtr-xvtf-jaa?authuser=0 Big up everyone! (edited)

2

Great news! Let’s go!!

3

Mattia

Week May 2nd Hey everyone, it is my goal to stay more organized and help everyone stay on the same page on this channel. Here is a summary of the week ahead. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see and learn about. Last week achievements 1. @Joseph won 100% team support on moving forward with the DAO

Here is the presentation https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10jXz7WnV2AQ_KLn4W6aOglmANWfxJFaBQ2YySR82I6Y/edit?usp=sharing Weekly Goals 1. We aim to send in the Commons Stack application by Friday 7th. Feel free to helps us craft the application using this doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fafLEkK4cpQimVy48PN7bZh1SDV1llXC4UhsagDJy_0/edit?usp=sharing 2. Get Pros & Cons of transitioning to a DAO hammered out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z-StAA_3Vhq8WqbeJgpBREASHhaoUvT3dXXokoNniEg/edit?usp=sharing 3. Define the relationship between PP, LDA and DAO @Joseph 4. We will meet on Thursday 5pm CET to discuss Pros & Cons and relationship between PP, LDA and DAO https://meet.google.com/xtr-xvtf-jaa?authuser=0 Big up everyone! (edited)

Can't access

Mattia

Week May 2nd Hey everyone, it is my goal to stay more organized and help everyone stay on the same page on this channel. Here is a summary of the week ahead. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see and learn about. Last week achievements 1. @Joseph won 100% team support on moving forward with the DAO

Here is the presentation https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10jXz7WnV2AQ_KLn4W6aOglmANWfxJFaBQ2YySR82I6Y/edit?usp=sharing Weekly Goals 1. We aim to send in the Commons Stack application by Friday 7th. Feel free to helps us craft the application using this doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fafLEkK4cpQimVy48PN7bZh1SDV1llXC4UhsagDJy_0/edit?usp=sharing 2. Get Pros & Cons of transitioning to a DAO hammered out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z-StAA_3Vhq8WqbeJgpBREASHhaoUvT3dXXokoNniEg/edit?usp=sharing 3. Define the relationship between PP, LDA and DAO @Joseph 4. We will meet on Thursday 5pm CET to discuss Pros & Cons and relationship between PP, LDA and DAO https://meet.google.com/xtr-xvtf-jaa?authuser=0 Big up everyone! (edited)

Same... No access

Sorry, should work now

enti

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1fLJvPOvibcCUpJ9ES44_cdoX5Hb7LpDaloGWz5FbUEM/edit?usp=sharing

full of gems

I really like conviction voting https://link.medium.com/m7CmrDCOJpb

Joseph

I really like conviction voting https://link.medium.com/m7CmrDCOJpb

it's really cool indeed, albeit we're far from "conviction consensus"

1:57 AM

though there's a new one under development "fluid proposals"

1:58 AM

instead of receiving the bulk of a proposal when it reaches the threshold, the conviction dictates how open is the token stream and you slowly receive the amount of the proposal

1:58 AM

really clever imo

2:00 AM

based on this https://showcase.ethglobal.com/ethonline2021/osmotic-funding from a few 1Hive contributors as well

Osmotic Funding · ETHGlobal Showcase

Protocol built on top of Superfluid Finance and Conviction Voting to create and regulate project funding streams based on the interest a community has in them. Community preference is revealed continuously, since tokenholders are able to change their stake at any moment.

1

Heya!

Together with this Discord channel we will maintain a research topic on the Community Platform to keep track of the process and gather information in a more organized manner (that's the hope

)

You can find the topic here: https://community.preciousplastic.com/research/turn-precious-plastic-into-a-dao (let me know if you can access it, might need beta rights)

This is the very beginning but am aiming at making it more for pros like yourselves. For now is just a collection of primordial steps into research. Useful resources for the DAO group. If you happen to have good links, articles, yt channels or the likes make sure to comment on each steps.

An important one where I would love some inputs and resources is the "Blockchain & the environment" step, I would like to create a comprehensive and compelling case in favour of blockchains as I can envision the question coming up over and over again as we develop this from our community.

️ Also if you spot anything majorly wrong let me know

(edited)

2

1

Mattia

Heya!

Together with this Discord channel we will maintain a research topic on the Community Platform to keep track of the process and gather information in a more organized manner (that's the hope

)

You can find the topic here: https://community.preciousplastic.com/research/turn-precious-plastic-into-a-dao (let me know if you can access it, might need beta rights)

This is the very beginning but am aiming at making it more for pros like yourselves. For now is just a collection of primordial steps into research. Useful resources for the DAO group. If you happen to have good links, articles, yt channels or the likes make sure to comment on each steps.

An important one where I would love some inputs and resources is the "Blockchain & the environment" step, I would like to create a comprehensive and compelling case in favour of blockchains as I can envision the question coming up over and over again as we develop this from our community.

️ Also if you spot anything majorly wrong let me know

(edited)

Hey Mattia, I saw your post looking for input & resources. One that has served me well personally was binance academy. They have everything in both text format & YT viddy's, with a lot of info, can check it out here

https://academy.binance.com/en https://www.youtube.com/c/BinanceAcademy Besides that if you ever have a web3, blockchain related question hit me up. I have experience in the industry and if i can't answer your question i'll at least be able to refer you to someone who can

Besides that I wanted to give you another little tip: The Blockchain/crypto community is not only on twitter but a lot of the inner workings (and very experienced developers) reside in the depths of various Telegram groups. Might be worthwhile to dig in that rabbit hole as well at some point

Cheers!

Thanks @MagicTurtle really great to see you here! I'm wondering - are you familiar with the commons stack? We are thinking about applying to their prize https://medium.com/commonsstack/announcing-the-commons-prize-d3df343c37a9

Announcing the Commons Prize!

The next regenerative Commons economy to support public goods could be yours. Nominate your community!

@MagicTurtle

cheers for that! Of course, I completely forgot telegram

‍♂️ any you'd advise following? I find telegram even messier than discord

thanks for all the links, looking forward to new rabbitholes. Just curious could you reply to the posts? Would be great to post the bnb resources there

8:29 PM

@MagicTurtle if interested you could join tmw DAO call (5pm cet) trying to move forward and organise ourselves

Joseph

Thanks @MagicTurtle really great to see you here! I'm wondering - are you familiar with the commons stack? We are thinking about applying to their prize https://medium.com/commonsstack/announcing-the-commons-prize-d3df343c37a9

I'm reading through their materials. Haven't heard of them before but it looks interesting. One thing you need to keep in mind is that you'll most likely be tied to their platform if you win the prize by the looks of it

That might be a good thing but you might wanna choose for a 'we'll figure it out ourselves' kinda way in order to not have ties to anything else but your own DAO.

Mattia

@MagicTurtle

cheers for that! Of course, I completely forgot telegram

‍♂️ any you'd advise following? I find telegram even messier than discord

thanks for all the links, looking forward to new rabbitholes. Just curious could you reply to the posts? Would be great to post the bnb resources there

Sup! Yeah TG is very messy and fast-paced.

It really depends on what you want. Most telegram groups are centered around finding new projects to 'invest' in. This can obviously range from the true 'degens & moonboy' groups to AMA groups or just groups of project/DAO owners that chat about everything and nothing. How do I go about replying to the posts? Do you mean here on Discord or on the community.precious website's posts? In regards to the meeting, would love to join but I have a shoot that day so i'll most likely still be in the studio at that time

MagicTurtle

I'm reading through their materials. Haven't heard of them before but it looks interesting. One thing you need to keep in mind is that you'll most likely be tied to their platform if you win the prize by the looks of it

That might be a good thing but you might wanna choose for a 'we'll figure it out ourselves' kinda way in order to not have ties to anything else but your own DAO.

One small correction there, there’s of course a great overlap but there’s not such thing as “their platform”

enti

One small correction there, there’s of course a great overlap but there’s not such thing as “their platform”

Sorry yes you are right. What I tried to touch upon there is that their materials refer a lot to DAI, wxDAI & ETH. Especially in regards to their 'trusted seed' thing (sorry still reading up on it) What i'm wondering is if you'd be tied to a certain blockchain after winning their prizepool or not.

MagicTurtle

Sorry yes you are right. What I tried to touch upon there is that their materials refer a lot to DAI, wxDAI & ETH. Especially in regards to their 'trusted seed' thing (sorry still reading up on it) What i'm wondering is if you'd be tied to a certain blockchain after winning their prizepool or not.

Yeah honestly not sure about that tbh

9:11 PM

I just recently became a Trusted Seed and my understanding so far is that they do not impose but help shape the community with a set of tools or “puzzle” from their partner communities and experts on the board

9:12 PM

Probably one of the top tools si Conviction Voting which is currently only used in Gardens from 1Hive and that’s just deployed on Gnosis Chain and Polygon

I guess it all depends on the needs of your particular DAO + the specific inner working of the blockchain you decide to use. But gnosis looks promising

yeah, really bullish on gnosis

what is PP official twitter account?

unicornio

what is PP official twitter account?

never been active on twitter as pp, the time might have finally come

1

MagicTurtle

Sup! Yeah TG is very messy and fast-paced.

It really depends on what you want. Most telegram groups are centered around finding new projects to 'invest' in. This can obviously range from the true 'degens & moonboy' groups to AMA groups or just groups of project/DAO owners that chat about everything and nothing. How do I go about replying to the posts? Do you mean here on Discord or on the community.precious website's posts? In regards to the meeting, would love to join but I have a shoot that day so i'll most likely still be in the studio at that time

hey lars ye I meant on the community platform post, starting the discussion there on the step to keep that as a more timeless knowledge that will be easy to search and retrieve for the years to come. Discord is easily gone

1

11:57 AM

Very curious if anyone has more compelling data and arguments to support the thesis that blockchain really ain't that bad from an environmental standpoint, particularly when compared with traditional banking system and POS transition. Add your comments on the step here https://community.preciousplastic.com/research/turn-precious-plastic-into-a-dao

just added a little something

i don't have much insight about the environment impact tbh

I'll add some in there when i have time! I know that there have been some studies and research papers regarding this + due to the competitive nature of PoW systems, most ate running on or turning towards renewables in order to keep their expenses down & make more profit. If anything, blockchain technology is partly responsible for the quick adaptation of renewables in the past few years.

POS blockchains have a much smaller carbon footprint

4:10 PM

and this too... because let's get serious instead of being brainwashed by media

4:10 PM

1

See you all in 26mins

https://meet.google.com/xtr-xvtf-jaa?authuser=0 Agenda

Week recap
CS application video application wip https://youtu.be/lAu_Q0ujLG4
Discussion over relationship between LDA, DAO, PP

(edited)

2

https://app.clarity.so/invite-link/8zEOFLW16D

Clarity — The simplest workspace for decentralized teams

Connect your wallet, share token-gated documents, coordinate projects and proposals, track tasks, trade notes, and build your own personal Wikipedia—in a familiar all-in-one workspace.

is it still going on? I am unable to login

unicornio

is it still going on? I am unable to login

yup

did't get any notification, try now?

Mattia

See you all in 26mins

https://meet.google.com/xtr-xvtf-jaa?authuser=0 Agenda

Week recap
CS application video application wip https://youtu.be/lAu_Q0ujLG4
Discussion over relationship between LDA, DAO, PP

(edited)

just saw the video, great work! got me really excited

6:12 PM

i'm just skeptical about the last part when you talk about what's in for the Commons Stack and they say what's in for them is a monstrous challenge they may not want to face lol

6:13 PM

i guess i would rather have something like there's really great upside/PR/benefits for the Commons Stack and their Trusted Seed as they're partering with and helping one of the biggest "web2 commons" transition into web3

2

6:13 PM

if that makes sense

enti

i'm just skeptical about the last part when you talk about what's in for the Commons Stack and they say what's in for them is a monstrous challenge they may not want to face lol

lol

6:38 PM

zero stress... baby steps. The more PP is "DAO ready", the easier it will be for CS to handle the launch

enti

i'm just skeptical about the last part when you talk about what's in for the Commons Stack and they say what's in for them is a monstrous challenge they may not want to face lol

makes sense.. thought they might actually like the challenge

unicornio

zero stress... baby steps. The more PP is "DAO ready", the easier it will be for CS to handle the launch

Yes I think a lot of work can be done upfront to be DAO ready

What can be done, how to we bring to this channel key "opinion leaders", the most outstanding contributors from 10 yrs of PP?

7:09 PM

We must get them involved in the early stage.

enti

i guess i would rather have something like there's really great upside/PR/benefits for the Commons Stack and their Trusted Seed as they're partering with and helping one of the biggest "web2 commons" transition into web3

I agree w this feedback

@Mattia @Joseph this might give you some ideas for tokenomics/utility

Hardware Tokenization is a notable miss in there, I think it can be used in PP DAO

@unicornio thanks for this! Good framework

unicornio

Hardware Tokenization is a notable miss in there, I think it can be used in PP DAO

What do you mean? Example? You mean creating NFTs from drawings?

not only... What about "certified" parts/machines

11:09 AM

specially useful for the LDA bazaar and 2nd hand sales

11:09 AM

traceability comes to mind

11:16 AM

I am thinking if the PP token can be used to connect buyers directly to the DAO: hardware designers, HW manufacturers, installers, service providers like procurement/maintenance/consulting and (later?) supply chain processes. The PP DAO token can be used to protect intellectual property, source and track parts/machine production. (edited)

2

Yes! That's been raving in my mind. The token could help eventually trace the supply chain and potentially allow for a pp trademark where buyer can know full history of their recycled products

11:26 AM

Yes utility in the pp ecosystem can be applied in multiple places..

CS application sent

2

totally relevant https://variant.fund/writing/the-ownership-economy-2022 and this.. https://station.mirror.xyz/xjAWfo9cqLDLTjU2eamDIvuK09QrawY1nk5MXaXmZT4 @Kat this shines some light

(edited)

Possible governance structures

https://mirror.xyz/joaxap.eth/SBlRa5cehZx8ETMsTrbFpwRZ42zZaaxABsL5XSYJFn4

DAO governance models - 101

In this previous article, I talk about my immersion into DAOs.The approach I took to learn about them was to deep dive and collaborate on a few of them. I am still collaborating -and learning.

CS Voting parties are next week, feeling really excited!!

enti

CS Voting parties are next week, feeling really excited!!

Any chatting going on about apps? (edited)

Joseph

Any chatting going on about apps? (edited)

hmm not much, I don’t have access to the private TS chat though, the discord bot was broken when I joined lol

and it's still broken

7:08 PM

nominees have a special role and doesn't seem like you have it @Joseph

7:08 PM

idk if there's a particular channel for y'all, maybe it's worth asking

Voting is live!! https://tokenlog.xyz/commons-stack/commonsprize

Tokenlog · Token-weighted backlogs

Democratize your open-source software project. A better way for projects to collaborate with their biggest supporters.

2

we're meeting today right?

yes!

5:00 PM

https://meet.google.com/oop-yigs-qey

Meet

Real-time meetings by Google. Using your browser, share your video, desktop, and presentations with teammates and customers.

1

11:10 PM

https://medium.com/govrn/govrn-governance-model-27603e6dedd9

Govrn Governance Model

The current state of the full Govrn Governance Model

@Mattia joined late, how was it?

So reviewing some of the research materials I say I like the idea of a collective fund that allows everyone to have a say in how it's used. But I don't think we need any form of crypto to do that. If you take the crypto out of the equation what you are left with is simply just non-dividend common stocks. Everyone buying them gets to have a vote and say in how the money is used. I also really can't see how you are going to make this accessable to everyone. If everyone within precious plastics has a say in how the fund is used, even if they don't pay into it, then what's the point of having the stock portion or the crypto portion? But then if we restrict who gets a say in how the money fund is being used then is it really a free and democratic system? It would end up alienating pp members that don't or can't pay into it. Ends up making a class system where those that can't pay into it to get the rewards of it end up begging and pleading with those that have in an attempt to win favor and have the group invest in them. So in one case where those that have a say buy into it, you get something filled with corruption, on the other case the whole basis of the crypto or stock side of it looses all meaning as you let all pp members have a say despite buying or not buying into it. If PP really wants to make a storage of cash to help people out. I say just start a non-for-profit treasury account. People donate into it as they please, even customers might be able to donate to it too. And then as a collection by using surveys we vote on how to use the funds to help kinda like an angel investor to any of these small businesses and projects

1

enti

@Mattia joined late, how was it?

Was good, did a 3min presentation had to leave before q&a also not a huge audience. Could be good join other timesloths

1

Wild_Inventor

So reviewing some of the research materials I say I like the idea of a collective fund that allows everyone to have a say in how it's used. But I don't think we need any form of crypto to do that. If you take the crypto out of the equation what you are left with is simply just non-dividend common stocks. Everyone buying them gets to have a vote and say in how the money is used. I also really can't see how you are going to make this accessable to everyone. If everyone within precious plastics has a say in how the fund is used, even if they don't pay into it, then what's the point of having the stock portion or the crypto portion? But then if we restrict who gets a say in how the money fund is being used then is it really a free and democratic system? It would end up alienating pp members that don't or can't pay into it. Ends up making a class system where those that can't pay into it to get the rewards of it end up begging and pleading with those that have in an attempt to win favor and have the group invest in them. So in one case where those that have a say buy into it, you get something filled with corruption, on the other case the whole basis of the crypto or stock side of it looses all meaning as you let all pp members have a say despite buying or not buying into it. If PP really wants to make a storage of cash to help people out. I say just start a non-for-profit treasury account. People donate into it as they please, even customers might be able to donate to it too. And then as a collection by using surveys we vote on how to use the funds to help kinda like an angel investor to any of these small businesses and projects

How would you make such system that can allow everyone at any part of the world signal their preferences in a trustless manner? Money plays a good part yeah but it's not even about money, it's about the collective ownership of a group that's across the whole world and the ability to let everyone contribute even if they're not part of the "core" team.

1

3:33 PM

I don't think crypto is needed for everything and as far as I can tell PP has been working decently fine so far, but with tools arising to better empower collective ownership and coordination I'm not sure why not just give them a shot

3:34 PM

some crypto projects are terrible and I know that's probably a concern of everyone (including me!) but if you skip that bs there's a lot of cool stuff and innovation going on

enti

How would you make such system that can allow everyone at any part of the world signal their preferences in a trustless manner? Money plays a good part yeah but it's not even about money, it's about the collective ownership of a group that's across the whole world and the ability to let everyone contribute even if they're not part of the "core" team.

Yes I agree there, I feel the whole money aspect of this should be left out unless it's something simple like an emergency fund thing. If we want a collective ownership thing, I believe a stock market thing where stocks are held private and given to those that are part of the PP community will work better.

Wild_Inventor

Yes I agree there, I feel the whole money aspect of this should be left out unless it's something simple like an emergency fund thing. If we want a collective ownership thing, I believe a stock market thing where stocks are held private and given to those that are part of the PP community will work better.

Yeah but unfortunately that's hard, first of all I believe that creates way higher costs and burdens for the current team and a lot of markets aren't as easy to manage stocks and PP is way too spread out in the world

3:38 PM

the crypto thing can work just as a stock if needed but there's way less overhead

Has there been a crypto set up that can run off a single PC properly?

not sure what do you mean

Currently the systems that monitor the transactions of a crypto exchange need to use multiple PCs to keep track of and record transactions and ownership. Has the process been reduced to a point where it can run on a single PC

Wild_Inventor

Currently the systems that monitor the transactions of a crypto exchange need to use multiple PCs to keep track of and record transactions and ownership. Has the process been reduced to a point where it can run on a single PC

right, I mean (public) blockchains require a set of validators to confirm transactions by design - this ensures security as the redundancy of data across the globe makes it impossible to modify any record on the ledger

3:43 PM

that being said you as an individual don't need to run a validator if you don't want to

3:43 PM

there's plenty of wallets out there for you to access and manage your assets on the blockchain

3:43 PM

i don't run a validator myself

Well I would prefer is the main bases of the currency doesn't require those large validators

why is that though?

3:44 PM

would be really hard to make a trustless platform that's on control of a single entity

3:44 PM

well that would be really impossible lol

3:46 PM

but if your concerns are about the energy consumption of blockchains, there's plenty of them to choose that spend very little money per transaction, presumably less consumption that traditional banking systems

3:46 PM

the blockchain i use the most is offsetting 10x their organisational and network emissions

3:47 PM

https://community.preciousplastic.com/research/turn-precious-plastic-into-a-dao

Precious Plastic Community

A series of tools for the Precious Plastic community to collaborate around the world. Connect, share and meet each other to tackle plastic waste.

3:47 PM

https://www.xdaichain.com/about-gc/news-and-information/xdai-energy-efficiency/carbon-offsets

Carbon Offsets

3:47 PM

meant to share this last one sorry

Why do we need all these heavy validators anyways? Have not banks been doing this very same thing though with digital bank accounts? We withdraw money from time, we deposit money in them. We spend directly form the account all digitally. All that is really happening within the bank systems is that a set of binary data information that represents the amount of money in your account gets changed. And those changes are tied to a unique identification number. If this has already been done successfully before, and the US dollar is no longer held to any physical stands it is now held to an arbitrary one set by a governing body. So the worth and denomination of such dollar information is also simply accounted for within the bank accounts as a set of binary digital code. Then why don't we just use their systems for monitoring banks to monitor other forms of digital currency? The only thing that will change is the denominations and the unit of the money being but into the account? Looking at it that way, isn't digital banking simply the original crypto?

1

I hear you, but highly depends on the scale

3:52 PM

I don't remember the exact number but somewhat about 80M usd were sent to Ukraine in crypto amidst the war, some banks we're falling behind, some banned, etc.

3:52 PM

and that's on a terrible case

3:53 PM

but day to day international transactions are costly and complicated

3:53 PM

not to mention that you're used as the product whereas on crypto everyone benefits from shared ownership

3:54 PM

are banks bad? nope, can you make a global layer of coordination with fairly low costs and high impact with them? definitely not

3:55 PM

on a more philosophical point, it's also a matter of trust, even if a traditional company could potentially make something like that (which I don't believe as there's way too much bureaucracy on global matters), they control the data, not you

1

3:56 PM

the larger the validator set the best protected is your information, I could as a wrongfully intended validator switch up the numbers and make it so i have 1B dollars but I would be immediately left out as the other set of validators can't confirm that's true

3:57 PM

and that's trusting a system that doesn't know anything but computational cryptography, not trusting if a government is being transparent enough to take care of business the way they should

I honestly find more trust in a company that is regulated and can be penalized if they mess up than an open source where a person can mess up. And even is it's caught right away what is the penalties for them doing that? What restrictions and punishments do they receive for doing the that? I believe the regulations in place for things such as back and such are very much important and necessary for trust in the value of money, it's book keeping, and I e handling. If banking is difficult then find a way to start a nonprofit banking system. One that has am practices that make money saving and distribution easier for the low income person. Have it included a friendly and educational component to it that way it can educate the public it serves in how it works and how to use it. This in some degree has been done before with a start up that focuses on providing bank account access to low income people in places like Africa.

1

enti

@Mattia joined late, how was it?

now in second place

guess presentation helped

4:40 PM

I hear IRL meeting btw @Joseph and @unicornio is going great

glad you guys connected

2

just saw this @Wild_Inventor, may give you another perspective https://youtu.be/zNfJWXvezIk

Ledger

Sarafu: the crypto that's changing Kenya for good

enti

just saw this @Wild_Inventor, may give you another perspective https://youtu.be/zNfJWXvezIk

must watch for @Kat

2

Mattia

I hear IRL meeting btw @Joseph and @unicornio is going great

glad you guys connected

cake was great!

1

11:02 AM

GM (edited)

]

hey guys, someone posted a question on the PP github issue for the commons prize, https://github.com/commons-stack/commonsprize/issues/33#issuecomment-1126731519

Precious Plastic Commons · Issue #33 · commons-stack/commonsprize

Tell us about the community that you are nominating Precious Plastic is an open hardware platform enabling people to start their own plastic recycling project anywhere in the world. To date the Pre...

1

enti

hey guys, someone posted a question on the PP github issue for the commons prize, https://github.com/commons-stack/commonsprize/issues/33#issuecomment-1126731519

yes @Joseph is on it

10:01 AM

Looks like points were withdrawn from pp, didn't know that was possible @enti ?

10:02 AM

I think it is crucial that we also join CS calls on other timezones.. @Joseph

Yes working on it

Mattia

Looks like points were withdrawn from pp, didn't know that was possible @enti ?

I did not withdraw mine and I had put more than 4 votes, seems like an error

12:44 PM

Yup, a bug

12:44 PM

https://discord.com/channels/776352358832930816/971012488948748288/975331561744519209

OH MY https://opencollective.com/e2c

Open Collective

Exit to Community

3

enti

Yup, a bug

Oh shit.. start all over again?

Mattia

Oh shit.. start all over again?

Yes

If people remember what they voted for PP is fine

2:45 PM

Well it’s fine as long as it stays on the top 3 or 5, idk how long is going to be the list of finalists

They start from zero again? Buggy web3 :)

Mattia

They start from zero again? Buggy web3 :)

they did not have to, the bug only affected a few projects (idk which ones) but they preferred to reset all the votes

3:59 PM

TokenLog is a rather small beta project, it is what it is

https://twitter.com/gitcoin/status/1525219862011944961?s=21&t=xT9TQGyUrXKylmm-odMLuw

Gitcoin 🤖 🌍 (@gitcoin)

Grants Round 14 is coming! It will take place from June 8 - 23. If you have an existing grant and are looking to receive matching funds, it's a great time to review it and provide updates! Your grant must be ‘active’ to be eligible to receive Matching Pool funding.

2

What's going on here? What did I miss? Do I need to go click somewhere

?

unicornio

What's going on here? What did I miss? Do I need to go click somewhere

?

There was a bug on the platform the Commons Stack used for the voting and they restarted the whole thing

1:19 AM

PP is at second position still so it’s looking good

1:19 AM

https://tokenlog.xyz/commons-stack/commonsprize

Tokenlog · Token-weighted backlogs

Democratize your open-source software project. A better way for projects to collaborate with their biggest supporters.

1:20 AM

Note that this is the first round, there’s another one before selecting the actual Commons they’re going to build

How do I get votes?

1

Question: can anyone get hurt/loose money with ABC or the token? I want to make extra sure no one, and I mean no one, is loosing money because of this. Our community is into machines not finance, giving a them a powerful tool they don't know how to manage or handle and driven by hype and fomo could make lots of people loose money, and this I can't accept. Can we design a token system where no one gets hurt?

1

unicornio

How do I get votes?

Thats only for the Trusted Seed of the Commons Stack Associaton

Mattia

Question: can anyone get hurt/loose money with ABC or the token? I want to make extra sure no one, and I mean no one, is loosing money because of this. Our community is into machines not finance, giving a them a powerful tool they don't know how to manage or handle and driven by hype and fomo could make lots of people loose money, and this I can't accept. Can we design a token system where no one gets hurt?

Can they loose money? Yes. Is it harder than other mechanisms? Yes

3:12 PM

But ideally they don’t must have tokens to be part of the ecosystem and have a voice

3:13 PM

The same way you guys listen to everyone’s feedback and requests to take decisions

3:16 PM

Like at least as far as markets moving the ABC is pretty resistant, $TEC has been doing pretty well despite the whole market going red

3:18 PM

But you know, if all of a sudden everyone decided to sell their tokens to the ABC there’s just not much you can do there

unicornio

How do I get votes?

maybe only them developers can vote?

yeah, I dont know lol Not familiar with Commons Stacks... No Idea of what ABC means

@unicornio actually would be interested in your opinion on it (Augmented Bonding Curve) https://medium.com/giveth/deep-dive-augmented-bonding-curves-3f1f7c1fa751

Deep Dive: Augmented Bonding Curves

This article is a deeper technical primer into the system design of the Augmented Bonding Curve used for the Commons Stack based off of…

https://medium.com/molecule-blog/token-bonding-curve-design-parameters-95d365cbec4f

5:19 PM

lines come is all shapes and forms ser

https://tokeneconomy.co/dynamic-token-bonding-curves-41d36e43befa

Dynamic Token Bonding Curves

Bonding curves are essentially a mechanism that allows the continual liquidity of a token, with the price changing depending on how much…

5:30 PM

Curves just help/facilitate executing the distribution. Deciding (designing) how you want to distribute tokens between ALL PP participating actors is the 1st step and the most important one.

@Joseph @Mattia you can start a DAO without a token (NFTs come to mind).

5:46 PM

The journey to decentralization is progressive.

1

5:47 PM

You can use NFTs to onboard, manage and coordinate (structure) existing PP members to the DAO.

5:49 PM

AFTER you are happy with the results you can use/leverage the NFTs to do a fair token launch (IF PP DAO votes to launch its own token)

I do like this approach (progressive versioning) and @enti comment the other really made me think "you can launch a DAO without a token". The logic and strategies to have a DAO really don't need a token per say. However, I guess governance would need a token, wouldnt it?

Mattia

I do like this approach (progressive versioning) and @enti comment the other really made me think "you can launch a DAO without a token". The logic and strategies to have a DAO really don't need a token per say. However, I guess governance would need a token, wouldnt it?

One usually thinks of crypto governance as requiring a token, but why couldn't you use other methods of governance without tokens? Like idk Ethereum itself doesn't use tokens to make decisions

6:05 PM

and it's arguably the DAO of DAOs

6:06 PM

And we all can pretty much agree with the progressive approach and I think we've talked about that a few times already

6:07 PM

The Commons Strack built TEC that way, they spent like a year before putting the actual token together

Nothing stops pp from doing Governance mining with NFTs instead of minting a new coin.

7:31 PM

I remember you guys debating this topic a while ago.

7:35 PM

IMO, onboarding existing active pp members to the DAO should be a priority and the members that join the DAO should be rewarded in multiple ways (even if there is no coin).

1

7:37 PM

Onboarding is a multi step process... Each action toward bigger engagement/participation should be rewarded.

1

I agree that using NFTs to model your current governance structure, which seems to be delegated to a small group of people, and then progressively decentralizing will make things move faster.

2

Welcome

I met @Jon Simmons on Orca discord and invited him to jam with us on DAO and tokenomic. They're doing wonderful things at Orca ❤️❤️❤️ (edited)

2

Welcome @Jon Simmons! Really cool to see more people in the space join the effort

1

enti

Welcome @Jon Simmons! Really cool to see more people in the space join the effort

Thank you all. Have been a fan of PP for a few years and helping to build a local workspace in our community makerspace. Injector done, extruder v2 and grinder almost done! Hoping a shift to web3 work will free up more time for IRL building, too.

1

enti

But ideally they don’t must have tokens to be part of the ecosystem and have a voice

YES that's a must, tokens must be opt-in (edited)

unicornio

You can use NFTs to onboard, manage and coordinate (structure) existing PP members to the DAO.

hey @unicornio this is still very vague to my untrained

Could you think of a practical example of how this could work?

unicornio

Onboarding is a multi step process... Each action toward bigger engagement/participation should be rewarded.

Orca onboarding is a delight

Hey guys so picking up from last week's proposal from @unicornio we would now organize into 2 groups:

DAO workgroup @Mattia @Joseph @enti, maybe @Jon Simmons ?
Token workgroup @Mattia @Joseph @unicornio I might add on @unicornio suggestion that we also need a macro workgroup focusing to inform the existing community on the existence of this DAO development channel and events to start onboard ppl on this conversation. Potentially just@Mattia and @Joseph for now. Should we do a meeting for each? Or other asynch collaborative ways are better? I feel like we talk a lot and the time to produce ideas, presentations, documents has come to bring the conversation further.

Mattia

hey @unicornio this is still very vague to my untrained

Could you think of a practical example of how this could work?

@unicornio makes a interesting point that I would like to also suggest. After reading all of the documentation of the initial discussions I had the feeling in the beginning there was a discussion between launching a PP token or a NFT but that conversation faded out. (Maybe because the token might be a better path decided after the online discussions). As a PP user and having met several members and also as @Mattia & @Joseph mentioned several times, the community is mainly Designers and makers oriented so beginning as a token/dao right at the beginning it might be a step learning curve to get onboard and also have a collaborative approach to it as not everyone is a tech savvy person. Maybe merging the two worlds might encourage more people to collaborate while at the same time working with the main skills we have in the community. A NFT project that builds into a DAO might work in the world of PP as it works towards collective ownership, if the NFT brings key attributes into the project like this examples @Mattia :

VeeCon & VeeFriends https://veecon.co/
Friends With Benefits https://www.fwb.help/
Decentraland https://decentraland.org/
Mirror Dao https://mirror.xyz/ https://nftevening.com/what-is-a-dao-and-how-does-it-relate-to-nfts/

VeeCon.co

VeeCon | Exclusive Conference Around Web 3 and Culture

VeeCon is a multi-day conference where only VeeFriends token holders will get to experience an extraordinary lineup of content, entertainment, competitions, gatherings, team sessions and more.

Friends With Benefits

Where Crypto Meets Culture

Welcome to Decentraland

Explore the first decentralized metaverse that is built, governed, and owned by its users. Discover different districts, meet people, party at events, and more!

Mirror: Create and connect your world on web3

The essential web3 toolkit for sharing and funding anything. From writing about your latest idea, to building a home for the next big DAO.

Reethu Ravi

What is a DAO and How Does It Relate to NFTs?

Wondering what is a DAO or Decentralized Autonomous Organization and what it has to do with NFTs? Then this beginner's guide is for you!

A more indepth example @Mattia is VeeCon that has several attributes to NFt's that I could see PP using. One of the main ones that you and @Joseph already mentioned as a need is using NFT as a seed funding to afterwards build and invest on developers for the DAO. depending on the rarity of the NFT you own you have certain benefits, 1-1 business calls to build your business plan with joseph, spend a week with the PP team, 1 lunch experience with Dave, Web Design support with Mattia, access to a PP conference in project kamp, early access to machine updates etc etc

Been thinking about this, now I’m not sure having those as separate groups right now is the best idea, my reasoning being that we have can’t design the pillars of the DAO and the token separately. Are we going to design a token strategy to serve the purpose of a organizational design we dont have yet?

2:29 PM

We should first get some understanding (who are the stakeholders, what are the current dynamics of PP and which ones of them we don’t like, all the moving parts like the open source machines and the marketplace, etc.)

2:30 PM

Then on “iteration 0” the PP team exits to community opening some form of off-chain/informal advice process so everyone is included

2:30 PM

Iteration 1 first version of the DAO we start to introduce tokens as a means of coordination (wether they’re fungible or NFTs)

2:31 PM

Idk something like that is what I have in mind right now

I am good with whatever strategy moving forward, just keep adding more ppl to the convo sers

2:33 PM

we have lots of new ideas and opinions, makes sense to keep everyone in only 1 convo for now

2:34 PM

next call is tomorrow right? @Jon Simmons @Maker Island ☠ Leão can you guys make it?

Yes meeting tomorrow, any time that works for everyone? Usually at 5pm but we can adjust if it needs to.

unicornio

next call is tomorrow right? @Jon Simmons @Maker Island ☠ Leão can you guys make it?

Yes I'll be there

Ok guys, made an event for tmw on Discord to slowly open up to the community as proposed by @unicornio https://discord.gg/dGSQuvrj?event=976503688665382973 I will take care of the agenda. Hope to see you all there

(edited)

2

Should we go for Gitcoin grants 14 ? https://gitcoin.co/hackathon/gr14?

Grants Round 14 Hackathon

Grants Round 14 Hackathon | Gitcoin Virtual Hackathon

Joseph

Should we go for Gitcoin grants 14 ? https://gitcoin.co/hackathon/gr14?

heck yeah, why not?!

7:34 PM

i'd add a giveth project as well

Joseph

@unicornio actually would be interested in your opinion on it (Augmented Bonding Curve) https://medium.com/giveth/deep-dive-augmented-bonding-curves-3f1f7c1fa751

hello all, just joined the Discord a few weeks ago and stumbled on this interesting conversation... I came here because circular economy, but I actually work in the DWeb world in my day job. If you all manage to wrap your heads around ABCs I would love to hear your explanations -- I'm friends with Jeff Emmett ( TEC core team, https://blog.goodaudience.com/rewriting-the-story-of-human-collaboration-c33a8a4cd5b8 ) and I still don't understand them

Rewriting the Story of Human Collaboration

(Or, an Introduction to Token Bonding & Curation Markets)

1:00 AM

I'm kinda coming into this conversation like a bull in a china shop, not having read a lot of it. But I think it might be valuable for the token design workgroup to reach out to Sebnem Rusitschka -- she's a token engineer who's working with https://dada.art and has quite a different approach to much of the DeFi world. Less game theory, more human flourishing through cooperation. I suspect her approach might be quite compatible with the ethos of PP. (edited)

DADA • Living Art

A social network where people speak to each other through drawings that are tokenized on the Ethereum blockchain.

@pauldaoust welcome!! mind if I ask what are you currently working on?

About ABCs... I think of them as a smart contract to mint tokens with an added tribute function so wether you buy (mint) or sell (burn) tokens you're giving to the reserve of the protocol/DAO

3:09 AM

then you have the reserve which is what backs the token and a funding pool which is what the community uses to well, fund whatever they do

unicornio

next call is tomorrow right? @Jon Simmons @Maker Island ☠ Leão can you guys make it?

Yes, I'll be there for part of it. Thank you

2

1

@pauldaoust welcome to this working group

️thanks for all the links and inspiration. Hope you can make it today for the meeting so we can meet

pauldaoust

I'm kinda coming into this conversation like a bull in a china shop, not having read a lot of it. But I think it might be valuable for the token design workgroup to reach out to Sebnem Rusitschka -- she's a token engineer who's working with https://dada.art and has quite a different approach to much of the DeFi world. Less game theory, more human flourishing through cooperation. I suspect her approach might be quite compatible with the ethos of PP. (edited)

Looking good. Does Sebnem have a Twitter account?

Mattia

Ok guys, made an event for tmw on Discord to slowly open up to the community as proposed by @unicornio https://discord.gg/dGSQuvrj?event=976503688665382973 I will take care of the agenda. Hope to see you all there

(edited)

@Rory - Sustainable Design Studio @Thomas Peterberns | Johannplasto would love to have you there if you can find the time

(edited)

1

unicornio

Looking good. Does Sebnem have a Twitter account?

https://twitter.com/sebnem

solsista (@sebnem)

becoming nobody making sense of @tokengineering for fun hitchhiking token projects for mind share https://t.co/7WnPnLQHeC…

Followers

2056

Tweets

7695

1

just a heads up, i won't be able to make it today

2

Hey everyone, event starting in 6mins in #meeting-room

On my PC, no microphone (edited)

1

enti

@pauldaoust welcome!! mind if I ask what are you currently working on?

About ABCs... I think of them as a smart contract to mint tokens with an added tribute function so wether you buy (mint) or sell (burn) tokens you're giving to the reserve of the protocol/DAO

Yeah, happy to talk about it! I'm a technical writer for a project called Holochain https://holochain.org. It's not blockchain (despite the silly name); it's more like a toolkit for building everyday apps that don't need a server. Some fun apps being built right now, including a community-in-a-box app that's apparently going to be marketed to DAOs. Thanks for that explanation, and it dredges up some rusty memories of things that Jeff has said to me. Sounds like it's meant to reward those who are committed to a community but also allow speculative investment, 'composting' that sort of relationship into benefits for the community. Does that sound right? There is one concept from the minds of Commons Stack that I instantly got: conviction voting, sounds interesting. It uses what I guess you'd call a bonding curve that gives you more clout the longer you leave your vote the way it is.

Holochain | App framework with P2P networking

Holochain delivers beyond the promises of blockchain by providing a lightweight, secure and versatile framework for everyday distributed apps.

Mattia

@pauldaoust welcome to this working group

️thanks for all the links and inspiration. Hope you can make it today for the meeting so we can meet

I'm honoured to get an invitation when I only just joined -- unfortunately I'm on dad/gardening duty today. got to get the garden ready for planting tomatoes this weekend!

2

#archived-dao-dev

pauldaoust

Yeah, happy to talk about it! I'm a technical writer for a project called Holochain https://holochain.org. It's not blockchain (despite the silly name); it's more like a toolkit for building everyday apps that don't need a server. Some fun apps being built right now, including a community-in-a-box app that's apparently going to be marketed to DAOs. Thanks for that explanation, and it dredges up some rusty memories of things that Jeff has said to me. Sounds like it's meant to reward those who are committed to a community but also allow speculative investment, 'composting' that sort of relationship into benefits for the community. Does that sound right? There is one concept from the minds of Commons Stack that I instantly got: conviction voting, sounds interesting. It uses what I guess you'd call a bonding curve that gives you more clout the longer you leave your vote the way it is.

Yup, that sounds about right! - it's also a great tool for small/mid size communities as they can choose anther currency to operate and back their token, like for example it has proven to be resilient towards the broader market movements (e.g. this market rundown hasn't affected the TEC much), which is pretty cool given that if we just had $TEC on our treasury under a more "normal" mechanism we would probably be in financial trouble right now. And Conviction Voting is something I'm a huge fan of too!! I contributed to 1Hive for ~1 year - we were one of the first to use CV as our main decision making mechanism and the developers of https://gardensdao.eth.limo/ which is used by TEC, Giveth and other projects to govern their common pools as well. Really cool stuff going on.

12:57 AM

Both the ABC and CV are things that could fit Precious Plastic really well! That's a big piece of why they've decided to go after the Commons Stack's Prize

2

1

enti

Yup, that sounds about right! - it's also a great tool for small/mid size communities as they can choose anther currency to operate and back their token, like for example it has proven to be resilient towards the broader market movements (e.g. this market rundown hasn't affected the TEC much), which is pretty cool given that if we just had $TEC on our treasury under a more "normal" mechanism we would probably be in financial trouble right now. And Conviction Voting is something I'm a huge fan of too!! I contributed to 1Hive for ~1 year - we were one of the first to use CV as our main decision making mechanism and the developers of https://gardensdao.eth.limo/ which is used by TEC, Giveth and other projects to govern their common pools as well. Really cool stuff going on.

This is encouraging to hear -- both that ABCs tend to buffer communities against the volatility of the market, and that you're still a fan of CV even after using it for a year. It speaks well of both these concepts if they're being used in real-world projects, are being enjoyed by participants, and are helping carve out niches of sanity in the unhinged world of crypto! (edited)

2

enti

then you have the reserve which is what backs the token and a funding pool which is what the community uses to well, fund whatever they do

ok so my lizard brain understands there are 2 places where money are held:

reserve where money coming in form ABC token sales are stored for future payback if everyone decided to sell the token
funding pool to be used by the project. How is this funded? Is this independent from ABC? Is this where buying/selling fees would end up? Can this be extend to other offchain revenue sources?

Mattia

ok so my lizard brain understands there are 2 places where money are held:

reserve where money coming in form ABC token sales are stored for future payback if everyone decided to sell the token
funding pool to be used by the project. How is this funded? Is this independent from ABC? Is this where buying/selling fees would end up? Can this be extend to other offchain revenue sources?

Yes correct. Funding pool is funded by a tax when people buy Precious Plastic token through the ABC. If they donate/buy 100 xdai worth of PPC , a certain percentage goes to the funding pool. And same thing when they would sell their PPC. So I would say no it's not really independent. What do you mean by extending it to off chain sources? Do you mean Bazar fees for example? (edited)

2

Joseph

Yes correct. Funding pool is funded by a tax when people buy Precious Plastic token through the ABC. If they donate/buy 100 xdai worth of PPC , a certain percentage goes to the funding pool. And same thing when they would sell their PPC. So I would say no it's not really independent. What do you mean by extending it to off chain sources? Do you mean Bazar fees for example? (edited)

Yes as of now Bazar fee but potentially more revenue sources in the future.. basically can this be the digital wallet to pp uses to run the show?

Mattia

Yes as of now Bazar fee but potentially more revenue sources in the future.. basically can this be the digital wallet to pp uses to run the show?

Yeah sure, the common pool is the wallet the DAO used for everything on the high level, though those “off-chain” sources of income must go on-chain at some point and deposited into the common pool for the DAO to govern them

Hey team wanted to thank anyone that joined yesterday. Made us want a DAO even more. Lots of good energy and ideas. If anyone is interested here is the Miro board used for the workshop https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOVy0W2M=/?share_link_id=48784822918

2

Mattia

Hey team wanted to thank anyone that joined yesterday. Made us want a DAO even more. Lots of good energy and ideas. If anyone is interested here is the Miro board used for the workshop https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVOVy0W2M=/?share_link_id=48784822918

you managed to catch the exact moment i was asking Yann if they were going for beers or coffee

4

Mattia

used /poll

Do we think we should run this channel/project as a DAO?

Yay

Maybe, what do you mean exactly

Nha

3

GM EVERYONE

We got third https://tokenlog.xyz/commons-stack/commonsprize

Tokenlog · Token-weighted backlogs

Democratize your open-source software project. A better way for projects to collaborate with their biggest supporters.

1

Hey guys I'm traveling to Portugal on Thursday, hence I anticipated the weekly meeting to Wednesday. Hope as many of you can make it

Agenda

Intro－What we are trying to achieve

Portugal－Week long web3 sprint in Ericeira + discord events

‍♀️ CS－current status and next steps

Gitcoin－Should we apply y/n?

️ Run channel as DAO?

Joseph

We got third https://tokenlog.xyz/commons-stack/commonsprize

thanks for the great writings in the github thread of PP applications

@Mattia @Joseph let me know if you have time to stop by the crypto embassy in Lisbon.

1

unicornio

@Mattia @Joseph let me know if you have time to stop by the crypto embassy in Lisbon.

most defo.. busy schedule but 100% gonna try to make it

@Jon Simmons do you think we could/should run this channel as smaller DAO leading up to the final PP DAO? A bit how each pod in orca is an individual entity with their own teams, multisig, processes and mgmt?

Hey @DAO Contributors so we got through the first phase of Common Stack price

Well done everyone that chipped in

For the next and final phase we need to answer to the following questions with a video by.. TOMORROW

Here are the questions: 1. If you win the prize, how committed are you, and other stakeholders in your community, to see through the Commons deployment over 9+ months. Besides yourself, how many other stakeholders have committed themselves to this project? ✍️Was thinking to mention everyone here as stakeholders, good with everyone? 2. The Token Engineering Commons (TEC) was the first to use our Commons design patterns (technical build and cultural build). Is there anything, in particular, about the TEC or it’s deployment that stands out for you? Anything that you think was done very well or could have been done better? Token Engineering Commons: https://token-engineering-commons.gitbook.io/tec-handbook/ ✍️Was thinking maybe @enti is the best positioned to help us answer this question? 3. Our cultural build is largely based on Elinor Ostrom’s 8 principle for governing commons. Are you, or your community, already familiar these principles? Would you say that one or more are already part of the community’s existing practices? Cultural build: https://token-engineering-commons.gitbook.io/tec-handbook/what-is-the-tec/the-cultural-build ✍️@Joseph is gonna hammer this out 4. The first Commons deployment was done on Gnosis Chain (formerly xDai Chain). Would there be any reason for your Commons not to deploy on this chain? ✍️ At a loss here, anyone would have any particular opinion on this? 5. Does your community have stakeholders that are not already familiar with web3? If so, have you thought about the plan to onboard them? ✍️ @Mattia will handle this Let's jam on this, write the best possible answers and I'll record it tonight/tmw morning

2

Yes @DAO Contributor 's very interested into your thoughts on #4. I think @unicornio you might have an opinion !

With #4 my only thing would be that the off/on ramping isn’t as great/easy (afaik no exchanges admit Gnosis deposits and withdrawals, though ramp.network let’s anyone buy xDai with FIAT). But thinking about Gnosis as one of the biggest players of the ecosystem since 2017 I’m pretty sure they’re putting the effort into making it more accessible.

4:14 PM

Other than that Gnosis is an excellent chain, and being the only one with fees paid in a stablecoin makes it perfect for non-web3 users to get used to it

@enti do you think the on/off ramp w Gnosis is more difficult than other blockchains? To me they are all equally not that easy for non-web3ers (edited)

Joseph

@enti do you think the on/off ramp w Gnosis is more difficult than other blockchains? To me they are all equally not that easy for non-web3ers (edited)

Hmm well from exchanges like Binance or FTX you can directly withdraw to Ethereum, Polygon, BSC, etc. which makes it easier I guess

Also huge move for Uniswap moving to Gnosis

2

Though I’ve been told that Coinbase just admits Ethereum so that would make anything equally hard for anyone outside eth

I am personally quite happy with Gnosis

Yeah same, that ramping isn’t a big deal for me, just wanted to point that out

And Gnosis is essentially a Layer 2 of ethereum right?

Nope, not really, it’s a sidechain

4:19 PM

But they committed to work as the canary chain of ethereum so pretty value aligned anyways

enti

But they committed to work as the canary chain of ethereum so pretty value aligned anyways

slightly scary

4:20 PM

Canary chain

enti

Nope, not really, it’s a sidechain

This is a common misunderstanding btw, for a chain to be a L2 it has to settle on ethereum, Polygon, BSC, Gnosis, etc. have independent consensus

I see

Joseph

slightly scary

I honestly think it’s more of a marketing stunt lol ethereum so far has upgraded very easily and without issues, they make huge research and test to make sure it works properly, gnosis just want to make them a week or so first and kind of brag about it :p

But we could theoretically move from Gnosis to Ethereum if Ethereum 2.0 works out well right?

Yeah sure, that would requiere some work but nothing impossible

Do you have thoughts on #2?

Hmm, I have to sit down and think that one better but the design patterns seem to work great, I’ve seen some communities go up and down while the tremendous thought behind the TEC has made it more resilient both monetary and community wise. I don’t like that oftentimes feels a bit too rigid.

✍️ here is a doc to collab on the answers https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjCAKX70ouyWPZ7HihiXiRLoKDxDdndLg9RO37gcYOE/edit?usp=sharing

Mattia

Hey guys I'm traveling to Portugal on Thursday, hence I anticipated the weekly meeting to Wednesday. Hope as many of you can make it

Agenda

Intro－What we are trying to achieve

Portugal－Week long web3 sprint in Ericeira + discord events

‍♀️ CS－current status and next steps

Gitcoin－Should we apply y/n?

️ Run channel as DAO?

I knew you were missing Portugal

1

enti

With #4 my only thing would be that the off/on ramping isn’t as great/easy (afaik no exchanges admit Gnosis deposits and withdrawals, though ramp.network let’s anyone buy xDai with FIAT). But thinking about Gnosis as one of the biggest players of the ecosystem since 2017 I’m pretty sure they’re putting the effort into making it more accessible.

#1 sounds great #4 I agree with enti one other pro towards the Gnosi Chain its quick and cheap to vote on, I guess the user-friendly aspect of the chain is its short dispute period and fast block time

Joseph

Canary chain

Yeah that would be a negative side to it, the bridge to ethereum is managed by chosen parties which doesn't make it completely decentralised. Also with the talks of stable coins due to the events of UST it shed some light again on the full stability of coins like USDT. At the moment I just feel comfortable with USDT and DAI they have been around for ages. But since Gnosis uses the DAI Its another positive aspect to it

Maker Island ☠ Leão

Yeah that would be a negative side to it, the bridge to ethereum is managed by chosen parties which doesn't make it completely decentralised. Also with the talks of stable coins due to the events of UST it shed some light again on the full stability of coins like USDT. At the moment I just feel comfortable with USDT and DAI they have been around for ages. But since Gnosis uses the DAI Its another positive aspect to it

well sadly there's no trustless bridge yet for any chain so not like there's much options :/, it's been said that they're working on one tho

1

Mattia

✍️ here is a doc to collab on the answers https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjCAKX70ouyWPZ7HihiXiRLoKDxDdndLg9RO37gcYOE/edit?usp=sharing

added a few things on #2

6:54 PM

about #3, I believe the 3rd principle (Collective choice arrangements) is already being used at PP right?

enti

about #3, I believe the 3rd principle (Collective choice arrangements) is already being used at PP right?

I think no based on my limited understanding of it

6:58 PM

Thanks @enti for your contributions on #2!

1

Maker Island ☠ Leão

Yeah that would be a negative side to it, the bridge to ethereum is managed by chosen parties which doesn't make it completely decentralised. Also with the talks of stable coins due to the events of UST it shed some light again on the full stability of coins like USDT. At the moment I just feel comfortable with USDT and DAI they have been around for ages. But since Gnosis uses the DAI Its another positive aspect to it

i recall someone saying that when developing or taking any action you guys try to make every decision based on what the people using the machines want/request?

enti

i recall someone saying that when developing or taking any action you guys try to make every decision based on what the people using the machines want/request?

yeah we do certaintly take that into account. But technically we are making all the decisions (hoping to change that in future)

so i'd say that it's within your values, it's just that it's hard without the proper tooling and that's precisely why you want to make the jump to web3

enti

so i'd say that it's within your values, it's just that it's hard without the proper tooling and that's precisely why you want to make the jump to web3

yup

7:02 PM

@enti do you know why TEC needed to us wxDAI versus just xDAI?

7:02 PM

that confuses me

Joseph

@enti do you know why TEC needed to us wxDAI versus just xDAI?

so the native tokens of pretty much all EVMs are non-ERC20 compliant and so they miss some functions that make them able to interact with contracts

7:04 PM

so you wrap up eth, xdai, matic whatever when interacting with any contract, say the ABC

Oh damn

7:05 PM

that's pretty annoying from a user perspective!!

7:05 PM

Confusing and an extra step

it's just a design "flaw", no one anticipated token standards when they were building ethereum

I seeeee

7:06 PM

fixed on ETH 2.0?

Joseph

that's pretty annoying from a user perspective!!

yeah not that much though, most of the apps take care of the wrapping for you (edited)

7:06 PM

i was surprised when I saw the ABC didn't wrapped xdai for the user

7:06 PM

like literally everything else does

Joseph

fixed on ETH 2.0?

huhhh i'm not sure, i don't think so, it really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal for most of the people and perhaps have some risks (like breaking stuff that are built on the precise assumption that eth doesn't have all the functions)

7:08 PM

but that's a bit out of my reach, those nuances are too technical for me :p

Joseph

that's pretty annoying from a user perspective!!

might be a negative aspect?

enti

i was surprised when I saw the ABC didn't wrapped xdai for the user

not sure if i should add this to the list of technicals cons of the TEC

Added some inputs too the files ill think about if there is anything else to add. in the mean time i you guys need any help in other topics let me know @Mattia @Joseph

enti

not sure if i should add this to the list of technicals cons of the TEC

Seems like a potential con for TEC at least in the perspective of new users

Maker Island ☠ Leão

Seems like a potential con for TEC at least in the perspective of new users

added it then

1

@enti do you think conviction voting has actually worked pretty well with TEC? It's really hard for me to tell. Doesn't seem like a lot of proposals have passed

Joseph

@enti do you think conviction voting has actually worked pretty well with TEC? It's really hard for me to tell. Doesn't seem like a lot of proposals have passed

"worked pretty well" is hard to tell, but it definitely solves these issues

Joseph

Yes @DAO Contributor 's very interested into your thoughts on #4. I think @unicornio you might have an opinion !

Xdai is gtg... No objections ser

2

About wETH (and any other wrapped version of native tokens on eth forks) https://weth.io/

wETH | ERC20 tradable version of ETH

A brief overview of wETH and why you need it for decentralized platforms.

1

Due to a personal loss I have to cancel todays meeting

Stay strong my friend if you need anything let us know! Big hugs

Mattia

Due to a personal loss I have to cancel todays meeting

Love and light. Sorry to hear about your loss.

Follow up questions to CS application https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHnDd3_BnxY&t

Commons Stack

Commons Prize Finalist:

Precious Plastic

1:48 PM

Finish line

to the last vote..

More info here https://snapshot.org/#/commonsstack.eth/proposal/0x3a806bbd393d186d2ed6262d75c01f31c86071ae87b76ae74ccd1802fe3de4fb

just fyi, ranked choice isn't really meant to be shown in real time and so there's a chance that the information displayed isn't accurate

3:36 PM

but there's definitely lots of interest for PP!

I thought it was behaving weirdly..

I just saw this on Twitter https://twitter.com/commonsstack/status/1532029204463661056 I'd love to vote but don't actually hold any $TRUST tokens. But I did put in a good word via reply

2

Wild_Inventor

Currently the systems that monitor the transactions of a crypto exchange need to use multiple PCs to keep track of and record transactions and ownership. Has the process been reduced to a point where it can run on a single PC

I guess @pauldaoust could say something about Holochain in this regard. Also, in terms of the "heavy validators" you mentioned, e.g. monero uses an asic resistant PoW

https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/mining/ (edited)

Mining Monero

Monero, a digital currency that is secure, private, and untraceable

Mattia

Question: can anyone get hurt/loose money with ABC or the token? I want to make extra sure no one, and I mean no one, is loosing money because of this. Our community is into machines not finance, giving a them a powerful tool they don't know how to manage or handle and driven by hype and fomo could make lots of people loose money, and this I can't accept. Can we design a token system where no one gets hurt?

The $TEC has a price floor for some time https://forum.tecommons.org/t/opening-price-price-floor-mechanism/507

Opening Price - Price Floor Mechanism

The Opening Price is the price at which we sell TEC tokens after the Commons Upgrade is complete. During the Hatch, tokens were minted at a value of 1 wxDAI per TECH; and at the Commons Upgrade, TEC tokens will be given to Hatchers at a 1:1 TEC/TECH ratio. Price Floor The price floor is the guaranteed minimum possible price at which TEC tokens...

8:08 AM

I saw PP on Giveth but no contribution yet. What is the plan with it? https://giveth.io/project/precious-plastic-open-source-machines-enabling-people-to-recycle

Check out Precious Plastic open source machines enabling people to ...

Precious Plastic designs and develops open-source machines, knowledge, tools and platforms to ena

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

I saw PP on Giveth but no contribution yet. What is the plan with it? https://giveth.io/project/precious-plastic-open-source-machines-enabling-people-to-recycle

I think @Mattia made this quickly ! Agree we need some sort of plan

1

11:26 AM

BTW great to see you here again @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

1

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

The $TEC has a price floor for some time https://forum.tecommons.org/t/opening-price-price-floor-mechanism/507

This is very interesting. Does the price floor mean that the tokens are automatically liquided (project token swapped back for wxDAI) if the ABC price lowers to the price floor?

hey @Mettodo | Njombe Beyond good to see you here again

️ yes did set it up to test it out, didn't really know what I was doing. Indeed we would need a plan/strategy there. Maybe good to discuss in the next DAO meeting next week.

2

11:38 AM

Also, we did not win the CS prize this time. Thanks everyone that helped and chipped in with their time and knowledge. In the next meeting we ought to talk about next steps and strategies forward.

1

11:40 AM

Had some very complicated couple of weeks, will be back on track next week and hopefully bring more life/action to this channel. Hope to see you soon all in the next DAO meeting next thursday.

I think we should really go for this gitcoin round

same, I don't see why not, shouldn't take long to fill that out (edited)

5:08 PM

plus if there's going to be an strategy for Giveth that same one can work for Gitcoin

I guess main question is: do we need to drive donors to gitcoin to gain traction or is their algorithm bringing donors our way?

8:57 PM

First option we ain't ready I'd say, otherwise if donors come from within gitcoin network we should do it

I mean, I guess it's a bit of both

9:31 PM

but realistically you can't really expect to drive much donations just relying on whether people find you or not on the platform

9:32 PM

with the commons stack prize you guys started to make some relations, and it's an effort that shouldn't stop now, then things like finding community for Giveth/Gitcoin becomes way easier

For those we could activate our own community but we need a strategic plan

How many new users have landed here because of CS?

12:39 PM

...Exactly

Joseph

I think we should really go for this gitcoin round

full overview on how gitcoin grant work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mio3AQlYRA Seems perfect for us, if we could mobilize 1000ppl donate 1$ that would translate in big matching funds but in order to achieve this we might need a bit of a comms strategy our end.. maybe we could sign up for this round (keeping our expectations low), learn how it works, and really work towards the next round in sept where we'll mobilize the whole community

Bankless

Fund Your Web3 Project with Gitcoin Grants Round 13 | GreenPill #4

1

we could even host a small verification party for BrightID

2:58 PM

Or at least just between us

2:58 PM

(Pairing gitcoin with BrightID and other things increases the matching amount)

1

greetings @Mattia @Joseph

, popping my head in from Commons Stack

graial

greetings @Mattia @Joseph

, popping my head in from Commons Stack

Hey Hey welcome to this channel

very sorry we couldn't win the prize

hopefully we'll still find our way to bring the DAO to life. You deep into web3? Keen to contribute to this group?

1:01 PM

Btw I've seen you're based in the Philippines, if you have the time you should meet up with @Butte (PP Philippines) , doing great recycling things in the region

️

Mattia

Hey Hey welcome to this channel

very sorry we couldn't win the prize

hopefully we'll still find our way to bring the DAO to life. You deep into web3? Keen to contribute to this group?

Im best with backend & data processing type tasks. Not so good with frontend and wouldnt yet consider myself competent with smart contracts, etc. Im down to contribute just to get to know people and build relationships. Best not to pass me anything that might require ongoing support tho, I always have lots of balls in the air.

1

Mattia

Btw I've seen you're based in the Philippines, if you have the time you should meet up with @Butte (PP Philippines) , doing great recycling things in the region

️

Sounds good. Im always keen to help build momentum where I can

graial

Im best with backend & data processing type tasks. Not so good with frontend and wouldnt yet consider myself competent with smart contracts, etc. Im down to contribute just to get to know people and build relationships. Best not to pass me anything that might require ongoing support tho, I always have lots of balls in the air.

Cool

welcome to the ride then

(edited)

1

Joseph

I think we should really go for this gitcoin round

Hey Joseph, as someone who’s familiar with gitcoin I would agree with you! There is absolutely no harm in creating a grant for this round, there are only lessons to be learned. @Mattia there are many anon donors that come from the gitcoin network but even more so it is a way to learn and I think there’s never really a time to be ready

koko

Hey Joseph, as someone who’s familiar with gitcoin I would agree with you! There is absolutely no harm in creating a grant for this round, there are only lessons to be learned. @Mattia there are many anon donors that come from the gitcoin network but even more so it is a way to learn and I think there’s never really a time to be ready

Cool @koko ! Are you from the web3 world?

Hahaha that question is funny to me! But sure, yes! @Joseph

1

hehe nice! are you working on any projects there?

In the web3 world? I am! I would love to share with you if you’d be willing to listen

Sup, won’t be able to attend this Thursday’s meeting

it’s the closing of a course I’ve been taking

koko

In the web3 world? I am! I would love to share with you if you’d be willing to listen

I’m curious to know

Mettodo | Njombe Beyond

I guess @pauldaoust could say something about Holochain in this regard. Also, in terms of the "heavy validators" you mentioned, e.g. monero uses an asic resistant PoW

https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/mining/ (edited)

Thanks for the invitation! It sounds like the question is about whether Holochain would need a super high-powered machine to be a validator? If so, the answer is complicated

The simple answer is no -- each person using the app carries their own weight and takes responsibility for validating a small slice of all the public data. But the complicated answer is that it relies on shared visibility into a thousand individual timelines -- basically, with enough eyes on each other, cheaters are likely to get caught. That's a lighter lift, computationally, than shared agreement on one single shared timeline. The intention was always to make Holochain runnable on end-user hardware. Hope this answers your question; let me know if not! (edited)

1

1:11 AM

just catching up with the conversations -- it seems that Grassroots Economics won the commons prize? Happy for them (I've had the odd conversation with Will Ruddick, the founder, and they're doing inspiring stuff) but sorry to hear for the PP community. I don't love winner-takes all.

(edited)

2

also, hi fellow web3 person @koko ! I'm interested in hearing what you're up to

Hey @koko welcome to this team! Yes I figured Gitcoin wouldn't hurt, so I made a grant https://gitcoin.co/grants/6074/precious-plastic which is still under approval process, the status of which can be seen here https://gitcoin.notion.site/fc5155ddb7804560a42387043bd805c1?v=937073ff11d149d29e08aa5901befc77&p=e9c2d6f534094b2a901a77ecd46221aa not looking super great as I had to make a twitter account for PP so it might look dodgy

additionally it might actually be smart to make it from PP github account rather than my personal one (not sure if we actually have one). But ye, this is moving forward－if anyone has ideas on how to speed this up bring it on ✌️✌️

koko

Hahaha that question is funny to me! But sure, yes! @Joseph

Feel free to share your Twitter with us

Mattia

Hey @koko welcome to this team! Yes I figured Gitcoin wouldn't hurt, so I made a grant https://gitcoin.co/grants/6074/precious-plastic which is still under approval process, the status of which can be seen here https://gitcoin.notion.site/fc5155ddb7804560a42387043bd805c1?v=937073ff11d149d29e08aa5901befc77&p=e9c2d6f534094b2a901a77ecd46221aa not looking super great as I had to make a twitter account for PP so it might look dodgy

additionally it might actually be smart to make it from PP github account rather than my personal one (not sure if we actually have one). But ye, this is moving forward－if anyone has ideas on how to speed this up bring it on ✌️✌️

What's the PP Twitter account?

unicornio

What's the PP Twitter account?

https://mobile.twitter.com/preciousplstc mind blowing

https://twitter.com/curiosoacerca/status/1534507454205243392?t=30ovp8KTEQLtHN2bbIdpSg&s=19

In preparation for tmw's meeting

️ Looking forward for your feedback https://app.claap.io/precious-plastic/dev-dao-c-1cma2AglUI-i0eelnlID8kc

I'd be interested to talk people through / discuss what I believe could be our tokenomics tomorrow if there's time @Mattia

Joseph

I'd be interested to talk people through / discuss what I believe could be our tokenomics tomorrow if there's time @Mattia

i would've asked this on the call but since i won't be there... do we consider realistic to design a model with the ABC? Just saying this because to my knowledge there's no no-code platform that can put up an ABC or I'm not sure if we'll find a solidity dev that's willing to do that for free or if there's going to be any available funding for that

9:13 PM

may be worth thinking about workarounds with no-code platforms and I'm sure the ABC can be integrated later

enti

i would've asked this on the call but since i won't be there... do we consider realistic to design a model with the ABC? Just saying this because to my knowledge there's no no-code platform that can put up an ABC or I'm not sure if we'll find a solidity dev that's willing to do that for free or if there's going to be any available funding for that

it's a good question and I'm not too sure. Defiantly understand there is no no-code platform for that. However for example https://rally.io/ has a traditional bonding curve that's available to use

Yeah, pretty much any DAO platform has some forms of bonding policies available, for example Garden's default is dynamic with a adjustable target of 30% reserve on the common pool

In terms of the "augmented" part of the ABC, I don't believe it would be that technically difficult to augment the code of a traditional bonding curve contract. However I'm totally not at all knowledgable enough to say either way

it's just that ABCs are too new/niche

enti

Yeah, pretty much any DAO platform has some forms of bonding policies available, for example Garden's default is dynamic with a adjustable target of 30% reserve on the common pool

So the default bonding curve with gardens also separates funds between a reserve and funding pool?

Joseph

In terms of the "augmented" part of the ABC, I don't believe it would be that technically difficult to augment the code of a traditional bonding curve contract. However I'm totally not at all knowledgable enough to say either way

Yeah, same, I don't think it should be hard but you don't want a junior dev messing with the token policy of your DAO either

Joseph

So the default bonding curve with gardens also separates funds between a reserve and funding pool?

nope, it just mints or burn tokens so that the common pool makes up for 30% the whole token supply, the percent can be changed of course

enti

Yeah, same, I don't think it should be hard but you don't want a junior dev messing with the token policy of your DAO either

so def. an issue, though we may find someone kind enough to help and if there's a good plan he can be compensated with an attractive allocation of tokens, but solidity devs are scarce so that's something to have in mind

enti

so def. an issue, though we may find someone kind enough to help and if there's a good plan he can be compensated with an attractive allocation of tokens, but solidity devs are scarce so that's something to have in mind

perhaps more will be available in the bear market

9:26 PM

A few of us from the team were at a refi spring event last weekend and met some

true lol and yeah cool, I'm thinking it'd be nice to get to the point where we're could start the deployment of those things while CS is doing so too for Grassroots Economics

9:30 PM

just to be able to pop in questions and even ask for help so we don't have to have like a full size team working on that

9:30 PM

in case of course we get to have some folks onboard

enti

Yeah, pretty much any DAO platform has some forms of bonding policies available, for example Garden's default is dynamic with a adjustable target of 30% reserve on the common pool

Are you sure most DAO no code platforms have bonding curve options? It feels niche to me

enti

true lol and yeah cool, I'm thinking it'd be nice to get to the point where we're could start the deployment of those things while CS is doing so too for Grassroots Economics

yes totally. I want to join TS to be at least understand what's going on there

Joseph

Are you sure most DAO no code platforms have bonding curve options? It feels niche to me

sorry, not really, meant more about all of them having token issuance my bad

Joseph

yes totally. I want to join TS to be at least understand what's going on there

You should definitely apply!

Joseph

I'd be interested to talk people through / discuss what I believe could be our tokenomics tomorrow if there's time @Mattia

Might be better to do that next week? We have a lot to cover and there's another event right after the DAO meeting

See you all in 23 ✌️ https://discord.gg/8kYqn2mt?event=982592441469272134 (edited)

Hello team

Yesterday we had a productive meeting with very valuable contributions from @enti @Jon Simmons @Joseph and more. Amongst other things, we had one major outcome from the call: We will run #archived-dao-dev work group as a DAO with its own governance and multi-sig

The mission of this work group is: Design, test, iterate and develop the Precious Plastic DAO until ready for launch

IMPORTANT: if there is any objections to this please surface them NOW so we can handle them together before diving into this I will now leave a couple of days for this to sink in and create the space for a conversation and possible objections to arise. On Monday I will post possible ways forward with things to work on and the creation of smaller subteams. So excited to finally get this started

️ (edited)

1

congratulations!

10:53 AM

LFG

5:48 PM

Great way to end the week (edited)

perfect timing!!

5:55 PM

gonna be on a gitcoin shopping spree later today/tomorrow

5:55 PM

send the link over pls!

https://gitcoin.co/grants/6074/precious-plastic

Precious Plastic | Grants

Precious Plastic is the operating system for planetary micro recycling. Precious Plastic OS includes recycling machines, techniques, digital platforms and a community to help anyone in the world to independently start their plastic recycling projects. In 2022 Precious Plastic helps 700+ orgs or 10.000+ people to tackle the plastic waste problem...

2

1

Mattia

https://gitcoin.co/grants/6074/precious-plastic

if by any chance any of you end up supporting there, remember to fill out your profile as much as possible to increase the matching!

2

https://twitter.com/curiosoacerca/status/1535875248343629824?t=ZkrvL2a03tol-VtfVaDBmA&s=19

Unicornio (❤️,🐯)(🦇,🔊) (@curiosoacerca)

ETH broke the highs of the previous bull cycle.The"gov token"experiment failed! Time to start recreate onchain Commons? Crypto imagination was hijacked by the corporations that we are trying to replace. Let's now experiment w/ NEW foundations based on grassroots rights and value.

Hey everyone, welcome to the first week as a dao for this group ❤️❤️ I propose we start to do the actual work it takes to setup the DAO. I speculate it taking 2-3 weeks to be fully operational. A few items I could think we ought to work on (with respective teams to be emerging): 1. Name. Agree on a name for this DAO. 2. Mission. Refine the mission of this DAO. 3. Team. Define who is part of genesis team. Additionally would be good to explore how people can join the team in the future. 4. Governance. Work on governance documentation and structure including tools and mechanisms to work together moving forward. @Jon Simmons @enti @Mattia came forward being interested working on this. 5. Multisig. Research what it takes to setup a miltisig for the DAO and what it implies (including setup fees, gas fees etc..) . @unicornio and @enti seem most knowledgeable here

I tagged some of your there, feel free to remove yourself if you can't work on those or come forward if you want to work on anything specifically

If we can sort out these elements throughout June we could be getting on working on the actual PP DAO by july Much love ✌️ (edited)

5

Mattia

Hey everyone, welcome to the first week as a dao for this group ❤️❤️ I propose we start to do the actual work it takes to setup the DAO. I speculate it taking 2-3 weeks to be fully operational. A few items I could think we ought to work on (with respective teams to be emerging): 1. Name. Agree on a name for this DAO. 2. Mission. Refine the mission of this DAO. 3. Team. Define who is part of genesis team. Additionally would be good to explore how people can join the team in the future. 4. Governance. Work on governance documentation and structure including tools and mechanisms to work together moving forward. @Jon Simmons @enti @Mattia came forward being interested working on this. 5. Multisig. Research what it takes to setup a miltisig for the DAO and what it implies (including setup fees, gas fees etc..) . @unicornio and @enti seem most knowledgeable here

I tagged some of your there, feel free to remove yourself if you can't work on those or come forward if you want to work on anything specifically

If we can sort out these elements throughout June we could be getting on working on the actual PP DAO by july Much love ✌️ (edited)

Where will we work on these things? Where will the docs live? clickup, google docs, clarity ($), notion ($), discourse (already using for PP community), Figma (we can use my paid acct)/Miro? Once we decide that, we can dump everything we already have into it and let people start jamming on the details.

1. I'd stick with Precious Plastic to be honest, no need to add "DAO" to everything

though Precious Plastic DAO doesn't sound bad either, no strong opinions here 2. Agreed, RnDAO has a miro board with some exercises to "map, asses and plan DAOs" https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVO_yPRJc=/ 3. To be discussed on the next meetings 4. Haven't looked at it properly but I believe the miro board above has some insight into how do we agree to make decisions - but we can discuss different ways as well 5. I believe Gnosis Safe is the most appropriate, popular, good UX, bunch of apps and I love how they're working to make it composable (with Zodiac you can start using your Safe as a DAO and plug-in other tools like DAOHaus, etc.) cost is minimal if deployed on a cheap chain like Gnosis - though I wonder if we really need to spin up one as to my understanding there are no funds to manage yet

Jon Simmons

Where will we work on these things? Where will the docs live? clickup, google docs, clarity ($), notion ($), discourse (already using for PP community), Figma (we can use my paid acct)/Miro? Once we decide that, we can dump everything we already have into it and let people start jamming on the details.

We already have a Clarity base btw https://app.clarity.so/invite-link/8zEOFLW16D, the free tier may be enough to start, though open to using something else

Clarity — The DAO Contribution Platform

Clarity is the most advanced DAO contribution platform. Share task boards & docs, manage access with tokens, receive bounty payouts, and build your contributor reputation.

Jon Simmons

Where will we work on these things? Where will the docs live? clickup, google docs, clarity ($), notion ($), discourse (already using for PP community), Figma (we can use my paid acct)/Miro? Once we decide that, we can dump everything we already have into it and let people start jamming on the details.

So we would normally work off a mix bag of google docs (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1jnBo0dWFJh7C_iuxxL76u-wJ9W2yLrBc) , figma, miro and the likes. But always open to rethink workflows and tools if they help us work together better.

I would say each team decides what tools to use and makes sense to them?
Happy to create accounts from pp if that adds any value
files that will be shared public might be good to host them under the pp umbrella

6:12 PM

DM me your email if you need edit rights to the Google folder

First contribution from complete stranger

3

Haven’t been able to make mine yet

it’s throwing me a bunch of errors on a few grants (including PP’s)

https://twitter.com/curiosoacerca/status/1536651971079413762

Unicornio (❤️,🐯)(🦇,🔊) (@curiosoacerca)

GM @SolvProtocol @DefiNft Are you up for a Twitter space about "What is the shape of the Commons Launch"? I absolutely think you guys have the best tools to make it happen.

11:19 AM

@Joseph @Mattia would love to have PP contributing to the agenda of this Twitter Space... adding points that you feel are relevent for the speakers to address

@enti and I had time to jam on what a minimum DAO looks like for PP, and how to progress from there. Here is a figma with open edit permissions. Jump in anytime and share with everyone for Thursdays meet. https://www.figma.com/file/TqpH2sSBFiO7ENVqWQhQB6/PP-DAO

1

Jon Simmons

@enti and I had time to jam on what a minimum DAO looks like for PP, and how to progress from there. Here is a figma with open edit permissions. Jump in anytime and share with everyone for Thursdays meet. https://www.figma.com/file/TqpH2sSBFiO7ENVqWQhQB6/PP-DAO

Cool you guys taking the lead

could be good to go over it in the meeting this eve

Alrighty so just to make sure and use this as an example of soft consensus, do we agree on using the upcoming meetings to brainstorm around this figma? https://www.figma.com/file/TqpH2sSBFiO7ENVqWQhQB6/PP-DAO Please react to this proposal:

I commit: I will actively work on the outcomes of this decision

I consent: I have no objections to this being implemented but I don’t commit to doing it myself

️ I have a suggestion: I would like to share my idea to improve the proposal and I will describe the suggestion in the thread ✋ I object: I sense that this proposal is not safe to try and I will describe my objection in the thread

I am not comfortable voting: I read the proposal but don't feel comfortable voting on it (edited)

PP DAO

Created with FigJam

4

1

Last day for our Gitcoin grant 14

So far we had 6 contributions

If you were thinking of donating now it's the time! https://gitcoin.co/grants/6074/precious-plastic (edited)

Precious Plastic | Grants

Precious Plastic is the operating system for planetary micro recycling. Precious Plastic OS includes recycling machines, techniques, digital platforms and a community to help anyone in the world to independently start their plastic recycling projects. In 2022 Precious Plastic helps 700+ orgs or 10.000+ people to tackle the plastic waste problem...

also had quite some views but little donations.. something to think about for next round

Hey team had a difficult week at Precious Plastic, todays meeting is postponed

oh

I really hope everything is ok

stay strong !

https://twitter.com/curiosoacerca/status/1540273580503715841

Unicornio (❤️,🐯)(🦇,🔊) (@curiosoacerca)

WEB2->ERC20. Unalignment of sweat/money Web3->Commons/Mutual Credit. Symbiosis of sweat/money Onchain Mutual Credit=SBT+ERC20 tokenomics. SBTs are debt. ERC20s are credit. When every credit is matched by an EQUAL and OPPOSITE debt, "money" is created and cannot be hoarded.

1

Would agree with pretty much everything said here https://open.spotify.com/episode/5BOvh6MP03Wnk8QNFYXMm1?si=87UphCdrR-Kl61KN7FEVgQ&utm_source=copy-link

18 - The Open Collective with Pia Mancini

Listen to this episode from GreenPill on Spotify. ✨ Subscribe to the Green Pill Podcast ✨ https://availableon.com/greenpill

Get the GreenPilled Book

https://greenpill.party/ Apple Show Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/greenpill/id1609313639 Spotify Show Link: https://open.spotify.com/show/0l6aXWC94dd0RA3tkKfxjd?si=5fdadfbc...

1

This is a great resource in case anyone hasnt seen it yet https://blog.trailofbits.com/2022/06/24/managing-risk-in-blockchain-deployments/

Trail of Bits

Managing risk in blockchain deployments

Do you need a blockchain? And if so, what kind? Trail of Bits has released an operational risk assessment report on blockchain technology. As more businesses consider the innovative advantages of b…

1

hey everyone

We had to go through some pretty heavy restructuring over the past couple of weeks and a general refocus on the most fundamental elements of Precious Plastic. Unfortunately the DAO development fell out of that and aqre not able to invest our own time into it for the time being

This is not to say conversation can't continue or that any of you could take the lead on this but I won't be able to push it forward for the upcoming months. Quite sad about it as I truly believe PP should be a DAO but I see this more as a pause rather than an end. The channel will stay open and anyone can continue the conversation and research. As soon as I am able to revive this you guys will be the first ones to know! Much love to anyone that dedicate precious time to it so far

️

7

It's a very challenging environment right now. Perfect time to let all the learnings about web3 settle down. After, a clear picture will emerge of what value the PP members can supply and what value needs to be provided by a DAO back to them. (edited)

3

11:19 AM

Hint: no token, no DAO.

Mattia

hey everyone

We had to go through some pretty heavy restructuring over the past couple of weeks and a general refocus on the most fundamental elements of Precious Plastic. Unfortunately the DAO development fell out of that and aqre not able to invest our own time into it for the time being

This is not to say conversation can't continue or that any of you could take the lead on this but I won't be able to push it forward for the upcoming months. Quite sad about it as I truly believe PP should be a DAO but I see this more as a pause rather than an end. The channel will stay open and anyone can continue the conversation and research. As soon as I am able to revive this you guys will be the first ones to know! Much love to anyone that dedicate precious time to it so far

️

I'm very happy to hear back from you! Things are moving really quick and we all have got to adopt to be able to survive, as @unicornio is an opportunity to let the learnings settle down and come back later again with more and better ideas. Looking forward to keep in touch and wishing the best for all of you guys.

Thanks everyone for the nice support! We'll be make it happen ✌️

2

11:35 AM

Cc @Jon Simmons

1

unicornio

Cc @Jon Simmons

I'll check them out.

All PP, but especially collection centers could earn from this. Anyone try them out? https://plastiks.io/

Agustin

Plastiks.io - Plastiks.io

PLASTIKS is a web 3.0 marketplace that enables sponsorship of plastic recovery and provides accountability and transparency. We connect companies and individuals to impactful projects around the world that are making a difference in the environment.

We (Njombe Beyond) are being onboarded but have not tested it yet. They told me that they want to understand the PP ecosystem better and connect with more PP workshops/initiatives. From what I have heard so far I think PP workshops fit very well, because the recovery certificates (NFTs) sell the stories behind the recovery. Vs empower.eco which, from our experience, is more about numbers (kg of plastic waste)

Joseph

This is very interesting. Does the price floor mean that the tokens are automatically liquided (project token swapped back for wxDAI) if the ABC price lowers to the price floor?

As far as I understood it is a vesting period for hatchers. We cannot sell TEC bought during the hatch = the price in the ABC cannot go below that floor price

Hey there @Joseph @Mattia and anyone else who was involved in the DAO development. My name is Danny, and I work at Seed Club, a DAO accelerator program and network. I think what you guys are building is truly amazing and definitely fit for a DAO structure. I know it’s a complex process, but I’d be happy to chat with you to see if A) there are roadblocks I could help remove, or B) get you to apply for our next cohort in December. I sent you both friend requests.

@🧠🧠🧠 hey Danny welcome

feel free to DM me.. Happy to chat further

1

Hey!

10:32 PM

So back in April I was really interested in helping bring this to fuition. I was told to basically hold off as there was some research being done. I was curious as to where you are all in the process.

I would love to dive head first into the development of this and really help this community. I have professors really looking to get onboard.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/announcing-socialstacks-summer-action-trysocialstack/

Announcing Socialstack's Summer of Action!

We’re excited to announce a $350,000 grant fund for organizations and creators to launch social tokens that advance social and environmental action. This kicks off our ‘Summer Of Action’.

7:57 PM

2

1

Well I did apply

2

1

So I had the idea of tokenizing the plastic recycling process since before I discovered this server. Joseph discovered me. Haha I do have a seperate server dedicated to the development of this process if anyone is intereated. The PPT does exist on gnosis chain. To make it tradable we need liquidity. However, for a DAO to work we need community involvement from all sectors of the Precious Plastics ;). I hope its ok the post the link to the server here. Hope to see people join.https://discord.gg/fmAjtePxvk (edited)

https://twitter.com/curiosoacerca/status/1585322295480156160

Unicornio (❤️,🐯)(🦇,🔊) (@curiosoacerca)

New funding mechanism for open source projects. 1st example is for @github contributors But by adding @CBG_RFNFT NFT chips/tags this can be easily extend to irl open source projects @preciousplstc @byebyeplastic

1

https://twitter.com/gitcoin/status/1631351307700420610?s=20

Gitcoin (🤖, 💚) (@gitcoin)

BIG ANNOUNCEMENT

We are excited to announce the launch of Gitcoin Grants Stack: a protocol-enabled suite of tools that makes it easy for communities to collectively allocate capital to fund their shared needs

Read all about it

Likes

290

3

1

None

This screams Precious Plastic from all sides https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/113-protocol-guild-1-year-in-with-tim-beiko-and/id1609313639?i=1000612710782

‎GreenPill: 113 - Protocol Guild: 1 Year In with Tim Beiko and Chee...

‎Show GreenPill, Ep 113 - Protocol Guild: 1 Year In with Tim Beiko and Cheeky Gorilla - May 11, 2023

3

2

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pVkNS8xFjNyBlbhXRX0Z9l0YeEOsnuDC

12:16 AM

The Nouns and Precious Plastic collaboration video

12:19 AM

I'm participating in this process, I'll let you know the repercussions of this collaboration with nouns dao, maybe even a How-to

12:20 AM

I've been watching this channel. The Grants videos on gitcoin and Common Stack. I am available to help with this construction

12:21 AM

We're here

I'm participating in the Green Pill channel, some approximations would be interesting: https://discord.gg/greenpill

Invite to join a server

GreenPill.Network

rules

let's go if anyone has feedback I'm open https://mirror.xyz/fcarva.eth/Xdj7FRSS-mdRYnXKg5VlWQOTzW_TVkLjWiIkUSIP51U

Um guia para o financiamento quadrático

Um guia sobre o Financiamento Quadrático que é um mecanismo matematicamente ótimo para financiar bens públicos em uma comunidade de forma democrática.

2

fcarva

let's go if anyone has feedback I'm open https://mirror.xyz/fcarva.eth/Xdj7FRSS-mdRYnXKg5VlWQOTzW_TVkLjWiIkUSIP51U

axè

1

We've redesigned Discord with more forum channels so you can easily find the discussion you're looking for

We've stopped all activity here. Don’t worry though - they'll be available until 31st of December 2023, so you can save any conversation you need. 

️ On January 1st, 2024, the old channels will be deleted. Feel free to explore the new channels and start the conversation there!